Nonetheless - Expanded Edition

[Gabby]

I always worry about the PSB demos. Even Pete G, gets involved. Has the producer enough scope to develop them further. I prefer a more basic demo which captures the idea and the producer has a bigger canvass to work from. Plus PSB take more time.

I have almost finished reading Ian Broudie's (of Lightning Seeds) book and he gets a fair bit into what it's like to be a producer of records. He described it as everything from making the tea to rewriting the entire song, and I can believe it.

I can't realistically see it, but I'd love to hear what Ian Broudie would do with some PSB songs. They have a similar work ethic I feel - applying lots of sonic layers and attention to fine details. The concern is that would be too many perfectionists in the room at the same time, but really could be quite something.

[Leonidas]

Should “expanded edition” be joined together as one word?

[ea39]

I always worry about the PSB demos. Even Pete G, gets involved. Has the producer enough scope to develop them further. I prefer a more basic demo which captures the idea and the producer has a bigger canvass to work from. Plus PSB take more time.

I have almost finished reading Ian Broudie's (of Lightning Seeds) book and he gets a fair bit into what it's like to be a producer of records. He described it as everything from making the tea to rewriting the entire song, and I can believe it.

I can't realistically see it, but I'd love to hear what Ian Broudie would do with some PSB songs. They have a similar work ethic I feel - applying lots of sonic layers and attention to fine details. The concern is that would be too many perfectionists in the room at the same time, but really could be quite something.

Now we're talking! I'd love any sort of collaboration with him. I think he might have namechecked PSB before, maybe even in his book, but no idea if he's a fan. I don't think they've mentioned him, but I might be wrong.

[Pinhead44]

I always worry about the PSB demos. Even Pete G, gets involved. Has the producer enough scope to develop them further. I prefer a more basic demo which captures the idea and the producer has a bigger canvass to work from. Plus PSB take more time.

I have almost finished reading Ian Broudie's (of Lightning Seeds) book and he gets a fair bit into what it's like to be a producer of records. He described it as everything from making the tea to rewriting the entire song, and I can believe it.

I can't realistically see it, but I'd love to hear what Ian Broudie would do with some PSB songs. They have a similar work ethic I feel - applying lots of sonic layers and attention to fine details. The concern is that would be too many perfectionists in the room at the same time, but really could be quite something.

Now we're talking! I'd love any sort of collaboration with him. I think he might have namechecked PSB before, maybe even in his book, but no idea if he's a fan. I don't think they've mentioned him, but I might be wrong.

Broudie has a amazing ear for melody.

Jollification is in my top 20 all time favourite albums.

[Leonidas]

Pure, Life’s too short - pop gems. Can anyone recommend any others please?

[Pinhead44]

Pure, Life’s too short - pop gems. Can anyone recommend any others please?

Everything on their Jollification and Dizzy Heights albums are 3 and a half minute pop gems.

Sorry for going off topic !

[Gabby]

I always worry about the PSB demos. Even Pete G, gets involved. Has the producer enough scope to develop them further. I prefer a more basic demo which captures the idea and the producer has a bigger canvass to work from. Plus PSB take more time.

I have almost finished reading Ian Broudie's (of Lightning Seeds) book and he gets a fair bit into what it's like to be a producer of records. He described it as everything from making the tea to rewriting the entire song, and I can believe it.

I can't realistically see it, but I'd love to hear what Ian Broudie would do with some PSB songs. They have a similar work ethic I feel - applying lots of sonic layers and attention to fine details. The concern is that would be too many perfectionists in the room at the same time, but really could be quite something.

Now we're talking! I'd love any sort of collaboration with him. I think he might have namechecked PSB before, maybe even in his book, but no idea if he's a fan. I don't think they've mentioned him, but I might be wrong.

The Boys do get name checked in his book - it was close to the beginning and I think it was in reference to musical styles going around at a particular time or possibly in reference to his use of Mark Farrow for design on Jollification...

[Gabby]

Pure, Life’s too short - pop gems. Can anyone recommend any others please?

Everything on their Jollification and Dizzy Heights albums are 3 and a half minute pop gems.

Sorry for going off topic !

Yeah, you really can't go wrong with any of those. I struggle with Sense and Cloudcuckooland a bit but there are some really good tracks on those too. Tilt has some nice stuff too. Four Winds and See You In The Stars I haven't played much - they're kind of OK, but definitely those mid 2-3 albums are solid.

It would be less off topic in the Holly Johnson thread right now - Broudie and Holly were bandmates before FGTH and LS!

[Leonidas]

Thanks for the heads up, I’ll check them out.

[telys]

Do their demos ever change that much? Vocal is an outlier but generally they are such good songwriters that the demos are not that dissimilar to the final versions.

Often not, but occasionally they do, as with “Domino dancing”, “Don Juan”, and “Vocal.” In this case I feel having all of the demos is most appropriate because they said James Ford greatly simplified the arrangements. Of course he also replaced all of the soft-synth programming with analog electronics and added strings and brass. I think having all of the demos will allow one to hear what the album would have likely sounded like had PSB self-produced it vs. pulling Ford in. Having a producer on a PSB album doesn’t always make a huge difference, but in the case of some like Lewis Martinee, Stuart Price (at least on “Electric”) and James Ford I think the producer makes a big difference sonically. In this instance it’s getting a second completely different take on the album. I’m quite excited to hear this incredible album again for the first time.

It would be great to get the Very songs before they were given to Stephen Hague or Behaviour - The Munich mixes, before the took everything and reworked/mixed the songs in London.

[Leonidas]

The demo I have ALWAYS wanted to hear is Devices.

[Dog]

The demo I have ALWAYS wanted to hear is Devices.

From the Further Listening booklet:

Neil: "'Left to my own devices' started off as an instrumental Chris wrote in EMI's demo studio in Abbey Road. We had asked Trevor Horn to do a song with us but we hadn't written it. We'd got to know him while making Actually in Sarm West."
Chris: "We'd always liked his productions."
Neil: "'Slave To The Rhythm', particularly."
Chris: "'The Look Of Love' by ABC."
Neil: "And The Art Of Noise. I've always liked big orchestral pop music. I've always liked Phil Spector's records, and the big Beatles records like 'A Day In The Life' and 'I Am The Walrus', and Trevor comes out of that school of production. Also, he was fun. We'd chat with him in the studio and have a laugh."
Chris: "He's very good at anecdotes. He's always got one about being in a backing band for someone up in some Northern club."
Neil: "Hazell Dean, for instance. And he'll tell you about how he played Madison Square Gardens as the lead singer of Yes. Also, he has this way of looking at you and his glasses seem to go opaque and you get this very blank look from him."
Chris: "It's hilarious."
Neil: "So we thought it would be fun to work with him, as indeed it was. We went into Abbey Road, the day before we'd arranged to meet him, to write something. Chris was doodling on the keyboard, and I was reading the Melody Maker and making phone calls and thinking 'I can't be bothered - can we go out for lunch?', and suddenly Chris got a bassline and I suggested we put it with these chords he had and it sounded quite good. Chris was in quite a hard-working mood, so he programmed it and I progressed onto the NME and then I realised - with joy - that I was singing to myself 'left to my own devices I probably would'. I don't know where it came from - it certainly wasn't Melody Maker."
Chris: "It was more like a Motown song, to begin with."
Neil: "The demo was much more moronic. It was slower than the finished record. I put onto it these guitar power chords from the Emulator and suddenly it was seriously happening so Chris read the Melody Maker and I did this mix where it built up from not very much to this enormous throbbing thing. It got louder and louder and louder until it distorted."
Chris: "Neil was enjoying himself."
Neil: "Across the road from the studio Trevor Horn and Jill Sinclair had a little flat which they used for making demos, and I played Trevor a cassette of this instrumental. He was quite interested in working with us, but when the track was playing it got so distorted that he stood up and turned it down in case it damaged his speakers. A very Trevor moment. He said he didn't want to judge this song because it had no words, apart from 'Left to my own devices'.”

[g_m]

The demo I have ALWAYS wanted to hear is Devices.

Absolutely! Probably the holy grail of PSB demos. Unbelievable that so many demo versions of songs from 1982 up until 2024 have been leaked/released and Left To My Own Devices is still locked away somewhere..

[Leonidas]

The demo I have ALWAYS wanted to hear is Devices.

From the Further Listening booklet:

Neil: "'Left to my own devices' started off as an instrumental Chris wrote in EMI's demo studio in Abbey Road. We had asked Trevor Horn to do a song with us but we hadn't written it. We'd got to know him while making Actually in Sarm West."
Chris: "We'd always liked his productions."
Neil: "'Slave To The Rhythm', particularly."
Chris: "'The Look Of Love' by ABC."
Neil: "And The Art Of Noise. I've always liked big orchestral pop music. I've always liked Phil Spector's records, and the big Beatles records like 'A Day In The Life' and 'I Am The Walrus', and Trevor comes out of that school of production. Also, he was fun. We'd chat with him in the studio and have a laugh."
Chris: "He's very good at anecdotes. He's always got one about being in a backing band for someone up in some Northern club."
Neil: "Hazell Dean, for instance. And he'll tell you about how he played Madison Square Gardens as the lead singer of Yes. Also, he has this way of looking at you and his glasses seem to go opaque and you get this very blank look from him."
Chris: "It's hilarious."
Neil: "So we thought it would be fun to work with him, as indeed it was. We went into Abbey Road, the day before we'd arranged to meet him, to write something. Chris was doodling on the keyboard, and I was reading the Melody Maker and making phone calls and thinking 'I can't be bothered - can we go out for lunch?', and suddenly Chris got a bassline and I suggested we put it with these chords he had and it sounded quite good. Chris was in quite a hard-working mood, so he programmed it and I progressed onto the NME and then I realised - with joy - that I was singing to myself 'left to my own devices I probably would'. I don't know where it came from - it certainly wasn't Melody Maker."
Chris: "It was more like a Motown song, to begin with."
Neil: "The demo was much more moronic. It was slower than the finished record. I put onto it these guitar power chords from the Emulator and suddenly it was seriously happening so Chris read the Melody Maker and I did this mix where it built up from not very much to this enormous throbbing thing. It got louder and louder and louder until it distorted."
Chris: "Neil was enjoying himself."
Neil: "Across the road from the studio Trevor Horn and Jill Sinclair had a little flat which they used for making demos, and I played Trevor a cassette of this instrumental. He was quite interested in working with us, but when the track was playing it got so distorted that he stood up and turned it down in case it damaged his speakers. A very Trevor moment. He said he didn't want to judge this song because it had no words, apart from 'Left to my own devices'.”

Thanks mate.

[dbaseboy]

Looks like French vinyl now €57, but if ordered when €23 it should be honoured by Amazon’s lowest price guarantee. Will see if that comes true.