Lost

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Danimal
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Re: Lost

#16 Post by Danimal »

Dog wrote: Thu 22 Dec 2022, 6:57 pm While the dark techno album never emerged, fans remained excited by Chris’s idea. In 2020’s Annually, “Dan” wrote to ask specifically if these tracks would ever be released. While Chris couldn’t recall such a set of songs, Neil went further to put the notion to bed: “When he says “the dark techno tracks”, I immediately think: wow, they sound good! But that’s not really what they are, unfortunately. There’s a few tracks - there’s a song called “The out crowd” which is maybe from earlier. There’s the one that goes “clean air hybrid electric bus” [Clean air hybrid] but that’s sort of psychedelic. There’s one with a Russian theme that’s techno-ish [presumably Kaputnik], and even from this album [Hotspot] there’s the one that Stuart likes that we don’t particularly like, “Collector’s item”. Who knows? What there really is is an unreleased body of second-rate songs.” So that, we thought, must be that.
Hi Dog,
I'm "Dan" from Kalamazoo, Michigan, the fan that asked that question in "Annually." I've subscribed to "Literally" since 1992 and it's the first time I ever asked a question. As a PSB die-hard since 1988, I've found I tend to enjoy their idiosyncratic releases the most. "Behavior" aside, I most enjoy PSB when they're releasing longer-form, mainly electronic tracks, projects such as "Electric", "Relentless", and the first "Disco." In fact, I was just listening to the Tuff City Kids mix of "Undertow" in the car and I enjoy it as much as the original.
The writing sessions for "Super" were intriguing as there was just so much material generated, and they were still in full-on electronic music mode coming off of "Electric." If I remember correctly, they set aside three compositions from those sessions for "Hotspot": "You are the one", "Happy people", and another I don't immediately recall, and they still had tons left. As with the "Elysium" writing sessions, there seemed to be enough potentially high-quality material for another release. In the issue of "Literally" that first discussed "Elysium", Chris mentioned an entire dance album having been written that Andrew Dawson didn't get, which in short order was released as "Electric." So when Chris mentioned something similar in the form of a techno album that had its genesis during "Super" I was intrigued. I was hopeful this would have been released shortly around the time of, or in tandem with, the main album. Now that PSB are no longer a major label act, I've been eager for a greater quantity of less-mainstream releases such as EPs, mini-albums, etc. I think we would have gotten more of these types of things over the years had PSB been on Mute rather than Parlophone.
If I remember correctly, Japanese retailers mooted "The lost room" as a "Super" Japan-only bonus track, but somewhere along the line that idea was dropped. To me that seemed to indicate the techno, or dark techno album, might be on its way and would include "The lost room." They obviously thought enough of it to tentatively schedule it for release. Ultimately we did get a stopgap EP in the form of "Agenda", but that had no relation to the potential techno project Chris mentioned.
Now, six or seven years later, we're finally getting that additional release generated during "Super, in the form of an EP. Dog did a great job of speculating why this might be. I have a few further ideas to suggest. One is, their previous answer to my question aside (perhaps they were sandbagging when they answered the question as they didn't want to spoil a potential surprise?), they always intended to release additional material from the "Super" sessions, but after writing "Agenda" were more moved to release those songs as they fit the zeitgeist of the moment, with the additional "Super" release simply being put back. Another idea is in the preparation of a new album they will often go back and listen to old demos to see if they've previously written anything worth revisiting, and that could be the case here, with these four songs representing, to them, a specific related subset of songs that stand together as a separate work, similar to "Agenda."
I do wonder why they've chosen not to use the Price produced version of "The lost room." It could simply be they don't wish to pay Price some type of contractually obligated fee for using one of his productions on such a low-profile release. Another possibility is this version of "The lost room", and perhaps others contained on "Lost", aren't, strictly speaking, the original demos, but rather they've gone back and did additional work on them in order to prepare them for release, and simply decided they like their version better. Or it is truly the original demo and they've decided the original idea is truly the best.

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jules
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Re: Lost

#17 Post by jules »

Ghost within this house wrote: Fri 23 Dec 2022, 10:32 pm Re the position of 4 Kaputnik - it looks like the Temp at Farrow has had a 'mare with the tab key....
It's because the 4th track on Adventures in hi fi by REM is Undertow 😁

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Spittingcat
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Re: Lost

#18 Post by Spittingcat »

I do wonder why they've chosen not to use the Price produced version of "The lost room." It could simply be they don't wish to pay Price some type of contractually obligated fee for using one of his productions on such a low-profile release.
I find that unlikely, Price isn’t just a hired hand. What’s more likely is that the Price versions weren’t finished, so the demo is more complete. Same as releasing the demo version of “Vocal” rather than the unfinished Dawson version.

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daveid
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Re: Lost

#19 Post by daveid »

Danimal wrote: Sun 25 Dec 2022, 2:50 am
Dog wrote: Thu 22 Dec 2022, 6:57 pm While the dark techno album never emerged, fans remained excited by Chris’s idea. In 2020’s Annually, “Dan” wrote to ask specifically if these tracks would ever be released. While Chris couldn’t recall such a set of songs, Neil went further to put the notion to bed: “When he says “the dark techno tracks”, I immediately think: wow, they sound good! But that’s not really what they are, unfortunately. There’s a few tracks - there’s a song called “The out crowd” which is maybe from earlier. There’s the one that goes “clean air hybrid electric bus” [Clean air hybrid] but that’s sort of psychedelic. There’s one with a Russian theme that’s techno-ish [presumably Kaputnik], and even from this album [Hotspot] there’s the one that Stuart likes that we don’t particularly like, “Collector’s item”. Who knows? What there really is is an unreleased body of second-rate songs.” So that, we thought, must be that.
Hi Dog,
I'm "Dan" from Kalamazoo, Michigan, the fan that asked that question in "Annually." I've subscribed to "Literally" since 1992 and it's the first time I ever asked a question. As a PSB die-hard since 1988, I've found I tend to enjoy their idiosyncratic releases the most. "Behavior" aside, I most enjoy PSB when they're releasing longer-form, mainly electronic tracks, projects such as "Electric", "Relentless", and the first "Disco." In fact, I was just listening to the Tuff City Kids mix of "Undertow" in the car and I enjoy it as much as the original.
The writing sessions for "Super" were intriguing as there was just so much material generated, and they were still in full-on electronic music mode coming off of "Electric." If I remember correctly, they set aside three compositions from those sessions for "Hotspot": "You are the one", "Happy people", and another I don't immediately recall, and they still had tons left. As with the "Elysium" writing sessions, there seemed to be enough potentially high-quality material for another release. In the issue of "Literally" that first discussed "Elysium", Chris mentioned an entire dance album having been written that Andrew Dawson didn't get, which in short order was released as "Electric." So when Chris mentioned something similar in the form of a techno album that had its genesis during "Super" I was intrigued. I was hopeful this would have been released shortly around the time of, or in tandem with, the main album. Now that PSB are no longer a major label act, I've been eager for a greater quantity of less-mainstream releases such as EPs, mini-albums, etc. I think we would have gotten more of these types of things over the years had PSB been on Mute rather than Parlophone.
If I remember correctly, Japanese retailers mooted "The lost room" as a "Super" Japan-only bonus track, but somewhere along the line that idea was dropped. To me that seemed to indicate the techno, or dark techno album, might be on its way and would include "The lost room." They obviously thought enough of it to tentatively schedule it for release. Ultimately we did get a stopgap EP in the form of "Agenda", but that had no relation to the potential techno project Chris mentioned.
Now, six or seven years later, we're finally getting that additional release generated during "Super, in the form of an EP. Dog did a great job of speculating why this might be. I have a few further ideas to suggest. One is, their previous answer to my question aside (perhaps they were sandbagging when they answered the question as they didn't want to spoil a potential surprise?), they always intended to release additional material from the "Super" sessions, but after writing "Agenda" were more moved to release those songs as they fit the zeitgeist of the moment, with the additional "Super" release simply being put back. Another idea is in the preparation of a new album they will often go back and listen to old demos to see if they've previously written anything worth revisiting, and that could be the case here, with these four songs representing, to them, a specific related subset of songs that stand together as a separate work, similar to "Agenda."
I do wonder why they've chosen not to use the Price produced version of "The lost room." It could simply be they don't wish to pay Price some type of contractually obligated fee for using one of his productions on such a low-profile release. Another possibility is this version of "The lost room", and perhaps others contained on "Lost", aren't, strictly speaking, the original demos, but rather they've gone back and did additional work on them in order to prepare them for release, and simply decided they like their version better. Or it is truly the original demo and they've decided the original idea is truly the best.
Hopefully Annually will give us more info on this. It's certainly one of the most mysterious and enigmatic songs in the PSB canon. I'd forgotten that The lost room was going to be a Japan-only b side. It's really odd that a track we know was fully mixed by Price for the album is still unreleased after all these years.

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glennjridge
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Re: Lost

#20 Post by glennjridge »

I hope the new songs are good, this will have to tide us over for a long time. they are out on their tour now...I dont see them going out again until the release of a new album and I doubt that will be anytime soon as it would be crazy to just come back from a huge world tour and then release a new album..and then head out again.

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Dog
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Re: Lost

#21 Post by Dog »

Danimal wrote:
Dog wrote: Thu 22 Dec 2022, 6:57 pm While the dark techno album never emerged, fans remained excited by Chris’s idea. In 2020’s Annually, “Dan” wrote to ask specifically if these tracks would ever be released. While Chris couldn’t recall such a set of songs, Neil went further to put the notion to bed: “When he says “the dark techno tracks”, I immediately think: wow, they sound good! But that’s not really what they are, unfortunately. There’s a few tracks - there’s a song called “The out crowd” which is maybe from earlier. There’s the one that goes “clean air hybrid electric bus” [Clean air hybrid] but that’s sort of psychedelic. There’s one with a Russian theme that’s techno-ish [presumably Kaputnik], and even from this album [Hotspot] there’s the one that Stuart likes that we don’t particularly like, “Collector’s item”. Who knows? What there really is is an unreleased body of second-rate songs.” So that, we thought, must be that.
Hi Dog,
I'm "Dan" from Kalamazoo, Michigan, the fan that asked that question in "Annually." I've subscribed to "Literally" since 1992 and it's the first time I ever asked a question. As a PSB die-hard since 1988, I've found I tend to enjoy their idiosyncratic releases the most. "Behavior" aside, I most enjoy PSB when they're releasing longer-form, mainly electronic tracks, projects such as "Electric", "Relentless", and the first "Disco." In fact, I was just listening to the Tuff City Kids mix of "Undertow" in the car and I enjoy it as much as the original.
The writing sessions for "Super" were intriguing as there was just so much material generated, and they were still in full-on electronic music mode coming off of "Electric." If I remember correctly, they set aside three compositions from those sessions for "Hotspot": "You are the one", "Happy people", and another I don't immediately recall, and they still had tons left. As with the "Elysium" writing sessions, there seemed to be enough potentially high-quality material for another release. In the issue of "Literally" that first discussed "Elysium", Chris mentioned an entire dance album having been written that Andrew Dawson didn't get, which in short order was released as "Electric." So when Chris mentioned something similar in the form of a techno album that had its genesis during "Super" I was intrigued. I was hopeful this would have been released shortly around the time of, or in tandem with, the main album. Now that PSB are no longer a major label act, I've been eager for a greater quantity of less-mainstream releases such as EPs, mini-albums, etc. I think we would have gotten more of these types of things over the years had PSB been on Mute rather than Parlophone.
If I remember correctly, Japanese retailers mooted "The lost room" as a "Super" Japan-only bonus track, but somewhere along the line that idea was dropped. To me that seemed to indicate the techno, or dark techno album, might be on its way and would include "The lost room." They obviously thought enough of it to tentatively schedule it for release. Ultimately we did get a stopgap EP in the form of "Agenda", but that had no relation to the potential techno project Chris mentioned.
Now, six or seven years later, we're finally getting that additional release generated during "Super, in the form of an EP. Dog did a great job of speculating why this might be. I have a few further ideas to suggest. One is, their previous answer to my question aside (perhaps they were sandbagging when they answered the question as they didn't want to spoil a potential surprise?), they always intended to release additional material from the "Super" sessions, but after writing "Agenda" were more moved to release those songs as they fit the zeitgeist of the moment, with the additional "Super" release simply being put back. Another idea is in the preparation of a new album they will often go back and listen to old demos to see if they've previously written anything worth revisiting, and that could be the case here, with these four songs representing, to them, a specific related subset of songs that stand together as a separate work, similar to "Agenda."
I do wonder why they've chosen not to use the Price produced version of "The lost room." It could simply be they don't wish to pay Price some type of contractually obligated fee for using one of his productions on such a low-profile release. Another possibility is this version of "The lost room", and perhaps others contained on "Lost", aren't, strictly speaking, the original demos, but rather they've gone back and did additional work on them in order to prepare them for release, and simply decided they like their version better. Or it is truly the original demo and they've decided the original idea is truly the best.
Hey Dan, great to hear from you. I am from the UK but have always been intrigued by Kalamazoo as it is name-checked in one of my favourite childhood books, Dr Seuss’s Horton Hatches The Egg. And I drove close by a couple of decades ago when my wife and I took a road trip from Chicago to New York - we stayed in Nappanee and then Battle Creek. I think that was the first time I actually realised Kalamazoo was a real place! It’s a great part of the world.

I agree PSB produced so much good stuff around this time. It is one of my favourite periods for b-sides - The dead can dance, Wierdersehen and In bits are all excellent, and of course the fantastic Brick England also comes from this era. As you say, You are the one was the song put aside for Hotspot. They also started work on Monkey business but that morphed into Pazzo. Wedding in Berlin was from this period but only ended up on Hotspot due to Stuart’s enthusiasm. It is interesting that The forgotten child also hails from this era.

Another theory regarding The lost room could be that they are saving the Price version for another purpose. Maybe it’ll be this version that ultimately ends up on the Super Further Listening disc?

Here are my 12 favourite tracks from this era:

The Pop Kids
Undertow
Brick England
The dead can dance
In bits
The forgotten child
Monkey business
Say it to me
Groovy
Sad robot world
Burn
Wierdersehen
Woof.

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Spittingcat
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Re: Lost

#22 Post by Spittingcat »

Is “An open mind” also from the Super period? Or did the they write it later, with other Hotspot period songs?

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Dog
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Re: Lost

#23 Post by Dog »

Spittingcat wrote:Is “An open mind” also from the Super period? Or did the they write it later, with other Hotspot period songs?
Yes, it’s definitely a Hotspot song.
Woof.

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Sandy Shaw
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Re: Lost

#24 Post by Sandy Shaw »

Dog wrote: Fri 23 Dec 2022, 9:39 pm
Sandy Shaw wrote:What's the source for this artwork?
It was posted to Farrow’s Instagram feed.
Thanks!!
What's for supper?

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Re: Lost

#25 Post by symco »

I wonder if these tracks will be available on Spotify?

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Dog
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Re: Lost

#26 Post by Dog »

symco wrote:I wonder if these tracks will be available on Spotify?
I know some would rather they were kept exclusive to the CD but I would rather they were made available as well. I like to have both.
Woof.

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Danimal
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Re: Lost

#27 Post by Danimal »

Dog wrote: Tue 27 Dec 2022, 3:19 pm Hey Dan, great to hear from you. I am from the UK but have always been intrigued by Kalamazoo as it is name-checked in one of my favourite childhood books, Dr Seuss’s Horton Hatches The Egg. And I drove close by a couple of decades ago when my wife and I took a road trip from Chicago to New York - we stayed in Nappanee and then Battle Creek. I think that was the first time I actually realised Kalamazoo was a real place! It’s a great part of the world.

I agree PSB produced so much good stuff around this time. It is one of my favourite periods for b-sides - The dead can dance, Wierdersehen and In bits are all excellent, and of course the fantastic Brick England also comes from this era. As you say, You are the one was the song put aside for Hotspot. They also started work on Monkey business but that morphed into Pazzo. Wedding in Berlin was from this period but only ended up on Hotspot due to Stuart’s enthusiasm. It is interesting that The forgotten child also hails from this era.

Another theory regarding The lost room could be that they are saving the Price version for another purpose. Maybe it’ll be this version that ultimately ends up on the Super Further Listening disc?

Here are my 12 favourite tracks from this era:

The Pop Kids
Undertow
Brick England
The dead can dance
In bits
The forgotten child
Monkey business
Say it to me
Groovy
Sad robot world
Burn
Wierdersehen
Hi Dog,
I'm originally from the east side of Michigan, just north of Detroit. I moved to Kalamazoo five years ago for work. Before that I had only been to Kalamazoo a handful of times. My girlfriend in college (the "Behavior"/"Very" era) went to Western Michigan University, which is in Kalamazoo, and I used to visit her. When a good job opportunity became available in the county neighboring Kalamazoo, I choose to live in Kalamazoo to provide more job opportunities for my wife. We both run public libraries. I run the Van Buren District Library in neighboring Van Buren County, and my wife runs the Comstock Township Library five miles northeast of Kalamazoo.
Kalamazoo is an interesting place. It's a small city of about 74,000 people with the metro area being about 335,000. Compared to Detroit traffic is light, which is a welcome change. The western side of Michigan is very conservative in general, but being a college town, Kalamazoo is extremely left leaning and diverse. As with most cities, there is a lot of poverty and property crime, but the people are friendly and one is safe in their person. Marijuana was legalized in Michigan about four years ago and in Kalamazoo there are literally dozens of pot shops; one may smell it absolutely EVERYWHERE in Kalamzaoo. Many people smoke it as they drive around, living their lives.
Kalamazoo is most famous for it's unusual name. Kalamazoo was most recently name-checked in the Netflix, Addams Family derived series "Wednesday." Uncle Fester mentions numerous times "the Kalamazoo job." Gibson Guitars were manufactured in Kalamazoo until 1984, when the company moved to Nashville. Though former employees of Gibson subsequently set-up their own guitar plant in Kalamazoo, Heritage Guitars.
Kalamazoo is equidistant from both Detroit and Chicago, with each being about two and a half hours by car. Growing-up, Detroit was one of the largest metro areas in the US due to the auto-industry. Detroit used to be a must stop for any band on tour. The Cure recorded their "Show" live album at the Palace of Auburn Hills north of Detroit as it was the biggest venue they could fill two nights in a row in 1992. But, with the decline of the auto-industry, Detroit ceased to be a mandatory stop for many touring bands about 15 years ago. Now that I live in Kalamazoo, I may easily take the train to Chicago, which is actually quicker than driving by about 30 minutes. I've taken the train to Chicago a few times in the past five years to see Robyn, Little Boots, and the Pet Shop Boys/New Order tour. I’m also going to see what remains of Depeche Mode in Chicago in April. For shows, Detroit is still preferable to Chicago as the venues and crowds tend to be smaller, but as I said, not everyone stops in Detroit these days, but they always stop in Chicago.
The west side of Michigan is a popular vacation spot for affluent people from Chicago, and many Chicagoans own second homes west of Kalamazoo, in the county I work in, Van Buren County. Over the years many have fled the high taxes and overcrowding of the Chicago area, moving permanently to western Michigan. Up until the pandemic the flight from Chicago only extended as far as Van Buren County, but during COVID, I started to notice more and more Illinois license plates in Kalamazoo. While it used to be that Kalamazoo was most closely associated with Detroit, over time Kalamazoo is becoming more closely associated with Chicago.
In my estimation, "Super", along with "Electric" are among the sturdiest things PSB have done since the "Very" era. "Bilingual" wasn't bad and had absolutely killer B-sides, but I felt after that PSB kind of got themselves into a rut. "Nightlife" didn't live up to its promise and fell apart in the second half. "Release" is something I almost never revisit. At the time I thought it would be great if they tried their hand at a "more rock" sound, then they did and for the most part it didn't work (though oddly their best "rock" song, "I didn't get where I am today" was relegated to a B-side). While many love "Fundamental" I only cared for the more dance-oriented tracks such as "Minimal", "I'm with stupid", and "Fugitive." I was pretty excited for "Yes" when that came out, but only the co-writes with Xenomania have stood the test of time. By the time we got to "Elysium" I was pretty much ready to give up on PSB. "Elysium" was patchy at best and I only really cared for about five of its tracks. Then we got "Electric" and that was the album I always wished they would make! Every single cut is solid and all the tracks have room to breathe. While I wasn't as excited for "Super" as I was for "Electric", it's probably their sturdiest pop album since "Very." "Groovy", "Undertow", "Say it to me", and "Burn" are some of their best pure pop recordings. I think it's telling that songs written during the "Super" sessions form the foundation of "Hotspot", and that seven years on they're still releasing material from those sessions.

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: Lost

#28 Post by Patrick Bateman »

symco wrote: Thu 29 Dec 2022, 9:22 pm I wonder if these tracks will be available on Spotify?
Bound to be.

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daveid
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Re: Lost

#29 Post by daveid »

Not entirely related, but out of interest, is Relentless on Spotify?

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leesmapman
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Re: Lost

#30 Post by leesmapman »

daveid wrote:Not entirely related, but out of interest, is Relentless on Spotify?
Nope



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