What would you think a future PSB's album should sound like in order to reinvent themselves?

[Future Lover]

No, people get exactly what you mean.

[It can be two things]

It's almost a song from the 70's and it sounds older than their 80's sounds.

I literally just said that.

Anyway... for me, it's not about sounds but about attitude. The run of the first five albums - their commercial peak - not only included their imperial period but as when they sounded imperious. There was an undeniability, even in their quieter and more contemplative moments, that became rarer later into the 90s and ever since.

[Patrick Bateman]

Some people don't want to understand that I mean.

I'd like PSB could reinvent themselves with new sounds. I said that on the first post of this thread.

But of course, if I had to choose between the big quality sound of PSB in the 80's and the low quality sound of songs like Burning the Heather. I prefer the first one. The elements of the sound of BTH are older than the ones from the 80's era. Come on!, it's only an accoustic theme with some subtle electronic elements. I want more from PSB. It's obvious there is nothing new, relevant or vanguardist on it. It's almost a song from the 70's and it sounds older than their 80's sounds.

You do realise that song composition existed before the 1970s, or even *gasp*, the 1960s?

[Kris]

[quote=Nickname post_id=597488 time=1592314120 user_id=136
I don't agree with most of what you said, but it's only your opinion so that's fine. But you can't say Burning the heather doesn't have a bridge. Maybe you should listen to the song a few times before casting judgement.

Where did I come from?
Where do I go?
Time is so heartless
You don’t want to know
[/quote]
That's a middle-eight, not a bridge. A bridge is the part prior to the chorus following a verse; to give you an example, in Can you forgive her? the bridge is: "You're in love, and it feels like pain..." (etc)

[NotInvisible]

In a way I’m in that camp, as I believe the quality, scope, song writing and production have deteriorated since then. Not a surprise I hasten to add.

I often wonder why ?

I think this is actually several intersecting. things. The best period for pop music is always when you were young. There's no getting that back, because we're all older now, and we engage with music in a different way. Another fact is that times change, and the influences and motivations artists have change with them. There is also the fact that most artists' best work is "their early stuff" because it's the result of years of material building up and a desire to make an impression; older artists in all media generally lose that fire over time, because comfort and security set in.

Most critically IMO is that artists generally have a set amount of gas in the tank when it comes to classics. This affects everyone, from god tier creators like David Bowie and Alfred Hitchcock to cult figures like Jarvis Cocker and David Lynch. Almost every iconic artist you can think of has a limited window of massive success and a broader period of lesser success. When was the last time anyone cared about a new album by McCartney or Springsteen?

Pet Shop Boys have bucked these odds IMO. They're probably the most consistently great music group out there, especially considering their age and the length of their career. Will they ever write another West End Girls or It's a Sin? No, but then again they don't have to. They already did it. All this wobbling about whether they can return to 1987 misses the point.

The 1985-1991 material will always be the core, classic Pet Shop Boys to me. Their definitive image in my mind is the Being Boring video. But the best thing they ever did was move on. Very was a reaction to all that, and it gave them their best chart position in years with a genuine hit. Then they started pushing their boundaries with Bilingual. That record and especially Nightlife are their worst records - but they were tentative first steps into new sounds and modes.

And then they reacted against being put in a box by people like Nickname with Release, which is probably the most pivotal album in their catalog after Please, because it radically redefined what the Pet Shop Boys could be. Is it a great album? Not in my opinion, but it's possible to take the tracks from that era and sequence a much better album, one that fans would hold in much higher regard. And that's partly because they embraced guitars and drums, but partly too because Neil blew open the scope of the Pet Shop Boys lyricism. The song writing would never really be the same, and while it wouldn't be as catchy or as imperial, in some ways it would be better. Release onwards is why the Pet Shop Boys have grown into national treasures in the media, its why they won the BRIT award. None of that would have happened if their career ended with Discography.

And since then they've done a film score, a ballet, a spoken performance piece, a fringe one-woman show and scored a play. They've released another half-dozen albums, all of which contain essential songs (even the most derided album from this period contains Leaving and Invisible, both of which are top-tier songwriting).

What a ramble.

[Nickname]

Anyway... for me, it's not about sounds but about attitude.

Yep. That's the idea.

[Nickname]

And then they reacted against being put in a box by people like Nickname with Release, which is probably the most pivotal album in their catalog after Please, because it radically redefined what the Pet Shop Boys could be. Is it a great album? Not in my opinion, but it's possible to take the tracks from that era and sequence a much better album, one that fans would hold in much higher regard. And that's partly because they embraced guitars and drums, but partly too because Neil blew open the scope of the Pet Shop Boys lyricism. The song writing would never really be the same, and while it wouldn't be as catchy or as imperial, in some ways it would be better. Release onwards is why the Pet Shop Boys have grown into national treasures in the media, its why they won the BRIT award. None of that would have happened if their career ended with Discography.

And since then they've done a film score, a ballet, a spoken performance piece, a fringe one-woman show and scored a play. They've released another half-dozen albums, all of which contain essential songs (even the most derided album from this period contains Leaving and Invisible, both of which are top-tier songwriting).

What a ramble.

For me, the ballet has been one of the most wonderful thing PSB has done over the years. So I like when they make additional projects, no problem with that.

Talking about proper studio albums. Ok, you love the depressing lyrics about getting older and all this stuff. But I'm not talking about the lyrics, I'm talking about music. Songs like Leaving and Invisible are not particulary good on musical terms.

[Disco.]

Leaving is one of their best songs. Absolutely wondeful !

[NotInvisible]

But I'm not talking about the lyrics, I'm talking about music. Songs like Leaving and Invisible are not particulary good on musical terms.

If Leaving had been on Behaviour you'd be calling it a masterpiece.

[Patrick Bateman]

Songs like Leaving and Invisible are not particulary good on musical terms.

Why?

[Pod]

Elysium is such a frustrating album - beautifully produced, contains some real gems like Leaving, Invisible and requiem in denim... (well I think that one’s a gem anyway).



Then there’s give it a go, winner and a couple only slightly better - sooooooo frustrating, particularly when they shove an absolute peach like In His Imagination on a b-side, but hey, what do I know?

[Pod]

But I'm not talking about the lyrics, I'm talking about music. Songs like Leaving and Invisible are not particulary good on musical terms.

If Leaving had been on Behaviour you'd be calling it a masterpiece.

I would yeah, but then I like it anyway.

[boyjohn]

[quote=Nickname post_id=597488 time=1592314120 user_id=136
I don't agree with most of what you said, but it's only your opinion so that's fine. But you can't say Burning the heather doesn't have a bridge. Maybe you should listen to the song a few times before casting judgement.

Where did I come from?
Where do I go?
Time is so heartless
You don’t want to know

That's a middle-eight, not a bridge. A bridge is the part prior to the chorus following a verse; to give you an example, in Can you forgive her? the bridge is: "You're in love, and it feels like pain..." (etc)
[/quote]

Most people used the terms interchangeably, and I'm sure that's what nickname meant.

[Scottydog]

[/quote]

For me, the ballet has been one of the most wonderful thing PSB has done over the years. So I like when they make additional projects, no problem with that.

Talking about proper studio albums. Ok, you love the depressing lyrics about getting older and all this stuff. But I'm not talking about the lyrics, I'm talking about music. Songs like Leaving and Invisible are not particulary good on musical terms.
[/quote]
Like most bands of a similar age PSB have got to the stage where they will record and do exactly what they want to do and quite rightly too. They don’t need to reinvent themselves unless they want to. They’ve grown out of you and don’t need you so if they aren’t recording what you want to hear then it’s time to find another band. Move on.

[Nickname]

But I'm not talking about the lyrics, I'm talking about music. Songs like Leaving and Invisible are not particulary good on musical terms.

If Leaving had been on Behaviour you'd be calling it a masterpiece.

I prefer King Cross, To face the Truth, Only the Wind, Jealousy, E mail, even B-sides like The View from your Balcony.

Invisible has a very clean production but the song is boring. Leaving is not bad but it's not a masterpiece.