This Is Navalny - Benefit concert

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: This Is Navalny - Benefit concert

#46 Post by Patrick Bateman »

NotInvisible wrote: Mon 09 Jun 2025, 2:43 pm
It's not difficult to understand. Neil loves Russia and hates that it's in thrall to a de facto dictator, so he sings about that. That doesn't mean he doesn't also care about other things, but no one can cover every subject nor should one have to. The West is broadly welcoming of migrants - North America, Australia and New Zealand are almost entirely built on immigration - and most associated crime is linked to poverty, not immigration per se. In America, for example, immigrants statistically commit crime at a lower rate than US citizens. Migrants are just another scapegoat for wannabe authoritarians - any minority will do, whether that's Jews in Germany or trans citizens in the US. Be better.
Russia has often had dictators. Neil can obviously write songs about what he likes but his politics have definitely become more overt in his songwriting in recent years. Maybe that's because his libido has declined - who knows?

And not to get involved in the politics per se, but he is pretty naive. So much fuss about identity cards, for instance. What's the problem? Doesn't he realise the authorities can track your movements perfectly okay without an identity card? Does he not have a passport? Or a phone?

The Iraq War is a good thing. No, it wasn't, it was a bad thing. Etc.

Trump's a loon. Who knew?

I admire him for standing up for gay rights in Iran and he clearly means well but generally the more politics there are in pop music, the more preachy and pompous it gets.

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Re: This Is Navalny - Benefit concert

#47 Post by telys »

Dog wrote: Mon 09 Jun 2025, 6:54 pm For the avoidance of doubt, if you’re wondering what Pet Shop Boys have to say on migration, take a listen to London, Dreamland, The forgotten child, Indefinite leave to remain, A new life, In his imagination, New York city boy, Sexy Northerner, Being boring, Dancing star, Somewhere, Two divided by zero or Go West. Pet Shop Boys are completely about escaping to a better life.
That's a helluva track list for a great album!
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Re: This Is Navalny - Benefit concert

#48 Post by telys »

Parkol wrote: Mon 09 Jun 2025, 6:44 pm
telys wrote: Mon 09 Jun 2025, 3:21 pm Please stop talking about Russia in any way resembling a real country. You know, and you know that we know that you know that Russia is a waste land with resources stolen by a genocidal dictator waging a genocidal war and that most people in Russia supports it. None of your whataboutism whatsoever will change that. So please stop saying anything positive about Russia.
N&C are artists who choose how they express themselves and on what themes. If you want them to talk about what concerns you well then you're delusional.
I'll make my own decisions without you telling me what to say and when to say it.
You're Russian, you don't make "own decisions". Your Czar makes them for you.
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Future Lover
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Re: This Is Navalny - Benefit concert

#49 Post by Future Lover »

Several things can be true - Putin being a massive evil in the world, and you being a jerk towards a misguided and naive forum member. If you're aware that Russia is a dictatorship, then you're surely aware how easy it is to rig polls and elections to prove whatever the hell you want, such as "most Russians support the Ukraine war" and so on. Your privilege of never living in a dictatorship is showing.

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Re: This Is Navalny - Benefit concert

#50 Post by jasonjohn »

Spittingcat wrote: Mon 09 Jun 2025, 10:23 am U2 : https://youtu.be/xxwhKN0DVYo
I just had a vision of Bono turning up for a Streets duet.
Dog wrote: Mon 09 Jun 2025, 6:54 pm For the avoidance of doubt, if you’re wondering what Pet Shop Boys have to say on migration, take a listen to London, Dreamland, The forgotten child, Indefinite leave to remain, A new life, In his imagination, New York city boy, Sexy Northerner, Being boring, Dancing star, Somewhere, Two divided by zero or Go West. Pet Shop Boys are completely about escaping to a better life.
Thanks Dog, good list

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Re: This Is Navalny - Benefit concert

#51 Post by NotInvisible »

Patrick Bateman wrote: Tue 10 Jun 2025, 8:35 amNeil can obviously write songs about what he likes but his politics have definitely become more overt in his songwriting in recent years. Maybe that's because his libido has declined - who knows?
What a strange response.
And not to get involved in the politics per se, but he is pretty naive. So much fuss about identity cards, for instance. What's the problem?
The 'problem' is that people aren't the property of the government. If I don't want to show my papers, or even have papers, I have the fundamental human right to not do so. "I am not a number, I am a free man!" etc. But you're welcome to volunteer to be less free.
The Iraq War is a good thing. No, it wasn't, it was a bad thing.
Changing one's opinion when new facts are discovered is typically a sign of maturity and intelligence.

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Re: This Is Navalny - Benefit concert

#52 Post by Patrick Bateman »

NotInvisible wrote: Tue 10 Jun 2025, 5:06 pm
The 'problem' is that people aren't the property of the government. If I don't want to show my papers, or even have papers, I have the fundamental human right to not do so. "I am not a number, I am a free man!" etc. But you're welcome to volunteer to be less free.
Ah, so you don't have a passport then! That must make travelling difficult, or at least thrilling. Do you hide underneath lorries at the border?

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Re: This Is Navalny - Benefit concert

#53 Post by Patrick Bateman »

NotInvisible wrote: Tue 10 Jun 2025, 5:06 pm
Changing one's opinion when new facts are discovered is typically a sign of maturity and intelligence.
What 'new facts' were these? I recall that plenty of people knew what a farrago the Iraq War was before the invasion. Did Neil really believe Alistair Campbell and his '45-minute' lie? That doesn't sound very intelligent. Silly Neil.

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Re: This Is Navalny - Benefit concert

#54 Post by telys »

Patrick Bateman wrote: Wed 11 Jun 2025, 8:36 am
NotInvisible wrote: Tue 10 Jun 2025, 5:06 pm
The 'problem' is that people aren't the property of the government. If I don't want to show my papers, or even have papers, I have the fundamental human right to not do so. "I am not a number, I am a free man!" etc. But you're welcome to volunteer to be less free.
Ah, so you don't have a passport then! That must make travelling difficult, or at least thrilling. Do you hide underneath lorries at the border?
As a non-UKer I can agree that the issue with identity cards was a bit awkward but the broader issue of constant surveillance is of course worthy of critique, and what better way than in a good pop song.
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Re: This Is Navalny - Benefit concert

#55 Post by jyllinge »

Future Lover wrote: Tue 10 Jun 2025, 10:36 am Several things can be true - Putin being a massive evil in the world, and you being a jerk towards a misguided and naive forum member. If you're aware that Russia is a dictatorship, then you're surely aware how easy it is to rig polls and elections to prove whatever the hell you want, such as "most Russians support the Ukraine war" and so on. Your privilege of never living in a dictatorship is showing.
This is absolutely true, and it’s precisely the point PSB are making. Russia is not free; if it were, the war would end immediately. Growing up in the 1980s, we were always reminded that ordinary people in the Soviet Union/Russia—children and adults alike—didn’t want a large-scale war. They just wanted to live in peace and friendship, just like us.

The same is true today. Ask anyone off camera and you’ll get the same answer. Many Russians even regard Ukrainians as family, given how closely the two peoples are connected. Who would bomb and kill their own close relatives? This war is utterly insane—driven by Putin and the Russian mafia, in a state where fear reigns and sudden death awaits those who oppose them.

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Re: This Is Navalny - Benefit concert

#56 Post by raggatwin »

jasonjohn wrote: Tue 10 Jun 2025, 12:48 pm
Spittingcat wrote: Mon 09 Jun 2025, 10:23 am U2 : https://youtu.be/xxwhKN0DVYo
I just had a vision of Bono turning up for a Streets duet.
Dog wrote: Mon 09 Jun 2025, 6:54 pm For the avoidance of doubt, if you’re wondering what Pet Shop Boys have to say on migration, take a listen to London, Dreamland, The forgotten child, Indefinite leave to remain, A new life, In his imagination, New York city boy, Sexy Northerner, Being boring, Dancing star, Somewhere, Two divided by zero or Go West. Pet Shop Boys are completely about escaping to a better life.
Thanks Dog, good list

Most of them arent about immigration though are they? Sexy Northerner?
Hello my name is Neil Tennant and I'm Chris Lowe and we're of the Pet Shop Boys.

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Re: This Is Navalny - Benefit concert

#57 Post by Dog »

raggatwin wrote:
jasonjohn wrote: Tue 10 Jun 2025, 12:48 pm
Spittingcat wrote: Mon 09 Jun 2025, 10:23 am U2 : https://youtu.be/xxwhKN0DVYo
I just had a vision of Bono turning up for a Streets duet.
Dog wrote: Mon 09 Jun 2025, 6:54 pm For the avoidance of doubt, if you’re wondering what Pet Shop Boys have to say on migration, take a listen to London, Dreamland, The forgotten child, Indefinite leave to remain, A new life, In his imagination, New York city boy, Sexy Northerner, Being boring, Dancing star, Somewhere, Two divided by zero or Go West. Pet Shop Boys are completely about escaping to a better life.
Thanks Dog, good list

Most of them arent about immigration though are they? Sexy Northerner?
They are all about migration and escape and Sexy Northerner totally is.
Woof.

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Re: This Is Navalny - Benefit concert

#58 Post by raggatwin »

migration and immigration arent the same thing though. Most of those songs are a about a young man who essentially wants to get his end away, not someone who has to flee due to bombing or famine. Forgotten Child is probably* the only time Neil has written about immigration...not that he has to all but as others have said here he picks and chooses his causes, nothing about BLM or Palestine...dunno what the common factor is...i can't work it out.....


Oops I forgot London, a young Russian guy fleeing conscription.
Hello my name is Neil Tennant and I'm Chris Lowe and we're of the Pet Shop Boys.

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Re: This Is Navalny - Benefit concert

#59 Post by Dog »

raggatwin wrote:migration and immigration arent the same thing though. Most of those songs are a about a young man who essentially wants to get his end away, not someone who has to flee due to bombing or famine. Forgotten Child is probably* the only time Neil has written about immigration...not that he has to all but as others have said here he picks and chooses his causes, nothing about BLM or Palestine...dunno what the common factor is...i can't work it out.....


Oops I forgot London, a young Russian guy fleeing conscription.
Neil writes from the perspectives of migrants; of displaced people - geographically or emotionally.

Why wouldn’t an artist pick and choose what they make art about? What is the song you would like him to write?
Woof.

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Re: This Is Navalny - Benefit concert

#60 Post by TallThinMan »

raggatwin wrote: Wed 11 Jun 2025, 3:04 pm ...but as others have said here he picks and chooses his causes...
I think that's what everyone does? There's only so much anyone can focus on.
Love Pet Shop Boys? You'd probably enjoy TIERGARTEN: https://linktr.ee/tiergartenmusic

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