James Ford

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

I'm reserving judgement until we hear the "demo album". What I can say is that I appreciate what James Ford did to make A New Bohemia sound so smooth. The demo is good and you could see where they were going, but James Ford really polished it off beautifully.

Retro.

[Rorie]

There was a comment somewhere that when Neil listened to the album, he felt underwhelmed initially. I think it is because it is stripped down. There is not as much going on.

PSB has always been a reactionary group, their latest sound or release is a response to the last. A sonic pendulum. Very is a reaction to Behaviour. Fundamental to Release. Elysium's response was Electric. Hotspots was Nonetheless.

The Expanded Edition of Nonetheless, the fact we are getting demos rather than say the Instrumental album is also a reaction. There will be more happening in the demos, more layers, more stabs and stems.

I expect the next new album to be bangers again.

[Drico One]

The demos are intriguing - as is the thought-process behind releasing them now at all. Are they trying to make some kind of oblique statement or simply fill product?

One thing I will say is I prefer the demo of A new bohemia to the album version. I find the Nonetheless version ponderous, but the demo has more vivacity, particularly in the celestial chorus which seems flat on the album.

Drico.

[TwizzleUK]

One thing I will say is I prefer the demo of A new bohemia to the album version. I find the Nonetheless version ponderous, but the demo has more vivacity, particularly in the celestial chorus which seems flat on the album.

I think the album version of Bohemia is far superior to the demo, and the chorus is much better on that version. The demo has a very awkward 7th chord that I find really jarring. I guess James Ford did too, and it's just the regular triad major instead on the final version. It also sounds better with the extra verse from the demo removed, which had slightly clumsy phrasing and added nothing to the song as a whole.

[Drico One]

One thing I will say is I prefer the demo of A new bohemia to the album version. I find the Nonetheless version ponderous, but the demo has more vivacity, particularly in the celestial chorus which seems flat on the album.

I think the album version of Bohemia is far superior to the demo, and the chorus is much better on that version. The demo has a very awkward 7th chord that I find really jarring. I guess James Ford did too, and it's just the regular triad major instead on the final version. It also sounds better with the extra verse from the demo removed, which had slightly clumsy phrasing and added nothing to the song as a whole.

Impossible to argue with a preference. Each to their own. I find the album version plodding - but the song, even in demo form, is a bit of a plod down the "strip" anyway, so I wouldn't blame Ford too much.

The demos will tell a tale.

Drico.

[Pinhead44]

I think the 2 songs I am intrigued to hear are Secret of Happiness, and Love is the Law, to see how much different they were in their demo form.

I could be wrong, but I'm not expecting the others to be significantly different, other than Ford would have added the orchestration, and layering on Neil's vocals to the album versions.

[Tom Angel]

This is a fairly complicated question. I think PSB loom large in the studio, and by midway through their career at least some producers didn’t seem to exert much, if any influence. “Bilingual” comes to mind in this regard, did the producers make any difference on this album? “Bilingual” sounds self-produced all the way through.

I remember reading in “Literally” way back after the release of “Very” their former mixer, Bob Kraushaar, commented that he was constantly pushing them to strip back their mixes and make them less dense.

For “Electric” the choice of Stuart Price seemed to have a noticeable impact, though Price also commented he was extremely assertive with them in the studio and often overruled their preferences. Just listen to the difference between the “Vocal” demo and the finished track. By “Super” the difference Price made was still tangible, but less pronounced. Then by “Hotspot”, at least to my ears, their creative chemistry seemed to have run its course and in my mind this is by far the least of the Price trilogy, similar to the place David Bowie’s “Lodger” occupies in his own Berlin trilogy. By this point it’s almost as if PSB had assimilated Price and have returned to their more-or-less usual sound. “Hotspot” really falls apart with the inclusion of the final three songs, which don’t suit the album at all and we know they had more appropriate material prepared at the time, which Price was fully aware of. “An open mind” and “Decide” would have worked much, much better than “Only the dark”, “Burning the heather”, and “Wedding in Berlin.” Price produced versions of “I will fall” or even “The lost room” would have fit as well.

When they announced James Ford as the producer of “Nonetheless” I was less than thrilled as I wasn’t a fan of Depeche Mode “Spirit”, which he also produced. Having said that, upon hearing the finished “Nonetheless” album it was a revelation. Ford did indeed simplify their sound and “Nonetheless” is a smooth listen. Over the years PSB albums have become increasingly harsh sounding, but in spite of the massive amounts of compression they use in the mastering process, “Nonetheless” is their most pleasant sounding album since perhaps “Behavior.” As Kraushaar suggested all those decades ago, the mixes are much less complicated than usual and the songs mostly benefit from it. It will be interesting to hear the difference between the “Nonetheless” demos and the finished album when they are released next month. I strongly suspect there will be a large contingent of fans who prefer the demos as they will likely sound more like the PSB we’ve grown accustomed to, with more going on sonically within the tracks.

Because PSB have been perfecting their craft for so long and are so expert at it, I think it takes a particularly strong, opinionated, and talented producer to truly have a significant impact on the final product.

I wonder if it was Price who disallowed An open mind” and “Decide” to make Hotspot = it would have made the album one of their absolute finest. All three of Only the dark”, “Burning the heather”, and “Wedding in Berlin.” would have made better b-sides. And open mind is easily strong enough to be a single

[Tentenlad]

Nonetheless is rather like Elysium, production wise. Weedy sounding and minimal instrumentation. I hope they don’t use James Ford again as he doesn’t bring out the best in the songs, just makes them sound safe and middle aged.
At least there was an edge to the Stuart Price produced albums.

I think the song choice is 100% Neil and Chris. It’s their albums their songs, so it’s their choice. Personally I think they lean too far towards trying to make each album have a theme and songs about the same things.
This means some corkers (An open mind, Hit and Miss etc) and some stinkers (Electricity, Wedding in Berlin etc) get excluded or included.

[Disco.]

This is a fairly complicated question. I think PSB loom large in the studio, and by midway through their career at least some producers didn’t seem to exert much, if any influence. “Bilingual” comes to mind in this regard, did the producers make any difference on this album? “Bilingual” sounds self-produced all the way through.

I remember reading in “Literally” way back after the release of “Very” their former mixer, Bob Kraushaar, commented that he was constantly pushing them to strip back their mixes and make them less dense.

For “Electric” the choice of Stuart Price seemed to have a noticeable impact, though Price also commented he was extremely assertive with them in the studio and often overruled their preferences. Just listen to the difference between the “Vocal” demo and the finished track. By “Super” the difference Price made was still tangible, but less pronounced. Then by “Hotspot”, at least to my ears, their creative chemistry seemed to have run its course and in my mind this is by far the least of the Price trilogy, similar to the place David Bowie’s “Lodger” occupies in his own Berlin trilogy. By this point it’s almost as if PSB had assimilated Price and have returned to their more-or-less usual sound. “Hotspot” really falls apart with the inclusion of the final three songs, which don’t suit the album at all and we know they had more appropriate material prepared at the time, which Price was fully aware of. “An open mind” and “Decide” would have worked much, much better than “Only the dark”, “Burning the heather”, and “Wedding in Berlin.” Price produced versions of “I will fall” or even “The lost room” would have fit as well.

When they announced James Ford as the producer of “Nonetheless” I was less than thrilled as I wasn’t a fan of Depeche Mode “Spirit”, which he also produced. Having said that, upon hearing the finished “Nonetheless” album it was a revelation. Ford did indeed simplify their sound and “Nonetheless” is a smooth listen. Over the years PSB albums have become increasingly harsh sounding, but in spite of the massive amounts of compression they use in the mastering process, “Nonetheless” is their most pleasant sounding album since perhaps “Behavior.” As Kraushaar suggested all those decades ago, the mixes are much less complicated than usual and the songs mostly benefit from it. It will be interesting to hear the difference between the “Nonetheless” demos and the finished album when they are released next month. I strongly suspect there will be a large contingent of fans who prefer the demos as they will likely sound more like the PSB we’ve grown accustomed to, with more going on sonically within the tracks.

Because PSB have been perfecting their craft for so long and are so expert at it, I think it takes a particularly strong, opinionated, and talented producer to truly have a significant impact on the final product.

I wonder if it was Price who disallowed An open mind” and “Decide” to make Hotspot = it would have made the album one of their absolute finest. All three of Only the dark”, “Burning the heather”, and “Wedding in Berlin.” would have made better b-sides. And open mind is easily strong enough to be a single

Chris has stated ( In Annually) that Decide was always only intended as a”b-side”

[glennjridge]

The final studio versions always end up sounding pretty much in step with the demos. all these producers do from what I can tell is turn the nobs and organize the sessions.

even the sounds used, on the demos always seem to end up in the actual final songs.

I think they just like the panache of dealing with this and that producer.
I don’t think they really bring much to the table quite frankly

[TallThinMan]

The final studio versions always end up sounding pretty much in step with the demos. all these producers do from what I can tell is turn the nobs and organize the sessions.

even the sounds used, on the demos always seem to end up in the actual final songs.

I think they just like the panache of dealing with this and that producer.
I don’t think they really bring much to the table quite frankly

Sometimes that's the case, but often not. I think we must be listening to very different albums! For example,
compare and contrast the demo and final versions of 'Don Juan' and 'Vocal'. The producers they use often bring a lot to the party. Stephen Hague wrote the intro to the hit version of 'West End Girls' and wrote and played the Emulator trumpet solo. Steve Lipton wrote the bassline for 'Left to my Own Devices'.

[moxlox]

Funnily enough I was independently thinking this same topic the other night.

I concluded I'd be very interested to hear a second James Ford produced PSB album. He seems very gifted musically so I'd like to see where this would go.

Also I am intrigued how much Nonetheless' gestation was impacted by lock down; which I realise came before James Ford was involved, so it is really the Neil/Chris dynamic that could have been affected. But the input to James, and time spent with him could have been different, maybe.

[Alphonse]

I would be very interested as well to hear a second James Ford produced PSB album. This time with the electronic edge of Simian Mobile Disco! That would be ace (after the absolutely fantastic album that is Nonetheless).

I love James Ford productions (with Depeche Mode, Arctic Monkeys and Jessie Ware).

[TwizzleUK]

For example, compare and contrast the demo and final versions of 'Don Juan' and 'Vocal'.

To be fair. Pet Shop Boys produced the final version of 'Don Juan'.

[g_m]

This is a fairly complicated question. I think PSB loom large in the studio, and by midway through their career at least some producers didn’t seem to exert much, if any influence. “Bilingual” comes to mind in this regard, did the producers make any difference on this album? “Bilingual” sounds self-produced all the way through.

I remember reading in “Literally” way back after the release of “Very” their former mixer, Bob Kraushaar, commented that he was constantly pushing them to strip back their mixes and make them less dense.

For “Electric” the choice of Stuart Price seemed to have a noticeable impact, though Price also commented he was extremely assertive with them in the studio and often overruled their preferences. Just listen to the difference between the “Vocal” demo and the finished track. By “Super” the difference Price made was still tangible, but less pronounced. Then by “Hotspot”, at least to my ears, their creative chemistry seemed to have run its course and in my mind this is by far the least of the Price trilogy, similar to the place David Bowie’s “Lodger” occupies in his own Berlin trilogy. By this point it’s almost as if PSB had assimilated Price and have returned to their more-or-less usual sound. “Hotspot” really falls apart with the inclusion of the final three songs, which don’t suit the album at all and we know they had more appropriate material prepared at the time, which Price was fully aware of. “An open mind” and “Decide” would have worked much, much better than “Only the dark”, “Burning the heather”, and “Wedding in Berlin.” Price produced versions of “I will fall” or even “The lost room” would have fit as well.

When they announced James Ford as the producer of “Nonetheless” I was less than thrilled as I wasn’t a fan of Depeche Mode “Spirit”, which he also produced. Having said that, upon hearing the finished “Nonetheless” album it was a revelation. Ford did indeed simplify their sound and “Nonetheless” is a smooth listen. Over the years PSB albums have become increasingly harsh sounding, but in spite of the massive amounts of compression they use in the mastering process, “Nonetheless” is their most pleasant sounding album since perhaps “Behavior.” As Kraushaar suggested all those decades ago, the mixes are much less complicated than usual and the songs mostly benefit from it. It will be interesting to hear the difference between the “Nonetheless” demos and the finished album when they are released next month. I strongly suspect there will be a large contingent of fans who prefer the demos as they will likely sound more like the PSB we’ve grown accustomed to, with more going on sonically within the tracks.

Because PSB have been perfecting their craft for so long and are so expert at it, I think it takes a particularly strong, opinionated, and talented producer to truly have a significant impact on the final product.

I wonder if it was Price who disallowed An open mind” and “Decide” to make Hotspot = it would have made the album one of their absolute finest. All three of Only the dark”, “Burning the heather”, and “Wedding in Berlin.” would have made better b-sides. And open mind is easily strong enough to be a single

Chris has stated ( In Annually) that Decide was always only intended as a”b-side”

Absolutely crazy decision. How they didn't see Decide as anything more than a b-side is beyond me. Especially when something as awful as WIB is on the album and the closing track at that!