The 10-track "US-version" of Introspective that could've been

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jasonjohn
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Re: The 10-track "US-version" of Introspective that could've been

#16 Post by jasonjohn »

Dog wrote: Sat 19 Nov 2022, 8:49 am
jasonjohn wrote:
Dog wrote: Thu 17 Nov 2022, 10:15 pm I think the idea of a 10 track Introspective is an interesting one but could more easily imagine something like this:

1. Left to my own devices
2. Domino dancing
3. Losing my mind
4. Bounce
5. I get excited (you get excited too)
6. I’m not scared
7. Always on my mind
8. I want a dog
9. Don Juan
10. It’s alright
I'm not a revisionist, but that's such a cool album. (not sure Domino Dancing and Left belong next to each other though, but minor point).

Also Don Juan disco mix is a bit of an oddity it terms of vibe. You could sink an entire album with that gloom :lol: But maybe the demo mix would be more complementary? It plays well with others. I like the urgency of the demo version, but would need to be polished.

And let's not forget the part in the demo mix when Neil goes wonky with the extended "take it or leave it". Quite a funny gem!
Always happy to take feedback Image

1. Left to my own devices
2. Always on my mind
3. I want a dog
4. Bounce
5. I get excited (you get excited too)
6. I’m not scared
7. Domino dancing
8. Losing my mind
9. Don Juan (Demo version)
10. It’s alright


Excellent! OK, good to send this off the the vinyl press now :)

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Dog
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Re: The 10-track "US-version" of Introspective that could've been

#17 Post by Dog »

jasonjohn wrote:Excellent! OK, good to send this off the the vinyl press now :)
Image
Woof.

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telys
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Re: The 10-track "US-version" of Introspective that could've been

#18 Post by telys »

The topic was not another fan favourite remake of the album but how to make a US-version that would alleviate the problems facing a 6-track album with long mixes.
Therefore we have the intro to Left to my own devices as a separate track as well as the intro to IMS. It wouldn't have been foreign to PSB listeneres. There was a short interlude track on Please and the outro to Hit Music is somewhat akin to that.
Neither Bounce nor Don Juan fit the mood of Introspective.
Come to think of it there was a 3*7" US promo release with "radio" edits of all six tracks with a total of 25 minutes of music. Adding IGE (YGET) and LMM would add another 10 minutes of music but lacking two tracks. My solution is Pink Floyd style of cutting YFU in two parts and bookending the album with them.
1. Your funny uncle I 1:08
2. Left to my own devices (US radio promo) 4:24
3. I want a dog (US radio promo) 4:01
4. Domino Dancing (US radio promo) 4:13
5. I get excited 5:35
6. I'm not scared (US radio promo) 4:38
7. Always on my mind/In my house (US radio promo) 4:14
8. Losing my mind 4:34
9. It's alright (10'' mix) 4:47
10. Your funny uncle II 1:11
----
You've got me all wrong

Disco.
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Re: The 10-track "US-version" of Introspective that could've been

#19 Post by Disco. »

Introspective is perfect as it is. Their best selling album.

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jasonjohn
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Re: The 10-track "US-version" of Introspective that could've been

#20 Post by jasonjohn »

Disco. wrote: Wed 23 Nov 2022, 7:44 am Introspective is perfect as it is. Their best selling album.
The eternal question is: What if Introspective was in a more vanilla format. It had huge exposure, so maybe that lost them sales for the next release if people felt burnt by not being a traditional album of attempted singles (which they have stated they often aim for, eg: Very).

One of the crowd
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Re: The 10-track "US-version" of Introspective that could've been

#21 Post by One of the crowd »

01: Left To My Own Devices - Album Version
02: I Want A Dog - Frankie Knuckles Mix
03: One Of The Crowd
04: Domino Dancing - Seven Inch Mix
05: What Keeps Mankind Alive
06: I'm Not Scared
07: Don Juan - Seven Inch Mix
08: Bounce
09: Occupy Your Mind - with Dusty Springfield
10: It's Alright - Album Version
Fishing

TallThinMan
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Re: The 10-track "US-version" of Introspective that could've been

#22 Post by TallThinMan »

Bounce isn’t good enough to feature on an expanded Introspective. It’s a fun curio, but they were right to drop it.

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Danimal
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Re: The 10-track "US-version" of Introspective that could've been

#23 Post by Danimal »

Being a new-ish fan at the time, I was stunned and delighted to hear “Domino Dancing” for the first time on US radio. That was back in the pre-Internet days when most often one didn’t know new music was imminent until one first heard it on the radio, saw it on MTV, or stumbled across a physical copy in a store.

I was so incredibly psyched for “Introspective.” Imagine my disappointment when I was finally able to drive to the record store after a long week at school, only to discover what appeared to be a stop-gap type release that contained only four new (to me at the time) songs, a single that was released in the US six or seven months before (which was a lifetime at the age of 16) and a b-side which wasn’t one of their best. My conventional mind at the time would have loved a standard 10 track album. Having said that, if they had gone that route the likes of “Losing My Mind” and “One of the crowd” wouldn’t have been on it as those tracks hadn’t been conceived of before the time of “Introspective” being recorded and released.

About six or seven months after “Introspective” The Cure released “Disintegration” which was mostly longer form tracks, ten on vinyl and 12 on cassette and CD. This was a VERY long album to release in 1989 on any format and a bold thing to do. It was a sign-post of the emerging CD age. It became a relatively big seller in America for something on the fringe, experimental side, though it was coming out of rock which had mainstream acceptance in the States. For such a long album the quality was consistently high throughout. Even back in 1982 Prince’s “1999” was a single cassette and double LP of 10 longer form, mostly electronic (though not dance) tracks and it was a big seller. I hasten to add though, that as Questlove observed in a retrospective of Prince’s prime years catalog, Prince was a master of getting electronic instruments to sound organic, such as on “Little Red Corvette”, which was basically an electronic track that sounded rock.

In the US in 1988, I didn’t know anyone who purchased vinyl albums, all of my friends bought cassettes. I suspect that was true of most kids. I think PSB could have still followed their concept of fewer longer form tracks, if it had seven or eight tracks on the main album and they were all original recordings of unreleased material, and if they had maybe saved the mixes of “Always on My Mind” and “I want a dog” as bonus tracks for a longer cassette and CD release, like The Cure did for “Disintegration.” I think they could have even released “Introspective” as a single cassette, single CD, and double LP with ten longer form tracks, if at least eight of them were new recordings. I think this would have been a bold thing to do at this point and would have been a much more satisfying release for their fans and the mainstream audience alike.

I don’t know what the other three or four original tracks for this hypothetical, expanded “Introspective” would have been. I think “Don Juan” disco mix could have gone on there with “Bounce” replacing “Don Juan” as the b-side of “Domino Dancing.” “Bounce” definitely has that late 80s cassette single vibe to it.

As much as I love “I get excited”, which is an ace track, I think PSB thought it sounded too much like their last album to include. On the other hand, “The sound of the atom splitting” would have been just too weird for a mainstream audience to put on there. Personally, I would have preferred if they had included the “base mix” of “Domino Dancing” on the main album rather than the “disco mix” as it’s edgier.

Even back then PSB were prolific song writers, so I’m sure they had enough high quality material at hand, had they decided to go in the direction I’m suggesting.
Last edited by Danimal on Sat 21 Jan 2023, 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The 10-track "US-version" of Introspective that could've been

#24 Post by TallThinMan »

If you put blank lines in between your paragraphs it makes your text a lot easier to read.

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Danimal
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Re: The 10-track "US-version" of Introspective that could've been

#25 Post by Danimal »

TallThinMan wrote: Sat 21 Jan 2023, 1:16 pm If you put blank lines in between your paragraphs it makes your text a lot easier to read.
I edited my post, incorporating your suggestion. Any other feedback?

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Re: The 10-track "US-version" of Introspective that could've been

#26 Post by TallThinMan »

Danimal wrote: Sun 22 Jan 2023, 12:01 am
TallThinMan wrote: Sat 21 Jan 2023, 1:16 pm If you put blank lines in between your paragraphs it makes your text a lot easier to read.
I edited my post, incorporating your suggestion. Any other feedback?
No, that’s much better. Thank you for doing that.

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Dog
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Re: The 10-track "US-version" of Introspective that could've been

#27 Post by Dog »

Introspective is pretty mental really isn’t it? It’s clearly made by a group at the height of their powers that think they can do anything and everything and surrounded by yes people. Multiple international producers, high end remixers, bizarre cover versions, a reprised b-side, obscure samples, a massive orchestra, pretentious talking bits, a full Latin horn section, a new acid rap section dropped into one of their biggest tracks. And all squeezed into just six songs to confuse the hell out of the casual listener. It’s a prog rock Disco. It’s so clearly a product of the imperial phase but it also ended it AND sold a bucketload at the same time. Let’s not forget that at this time they even had the balls to expect that Eric Clapton would say yes to playing guitar on I get excited. They were as mad a box of frogs but the outputs were astonishingly good. Some of their best ideas have been the craziest.
Woof.

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Re: The 10-track "US-version" of Introspective that could've been

#28 Post by TallThinMan »

Introspective was the first Pet Shop Boys album I ever heard. I borrowed a friend’s cassette and made a copy on my Dad’s Amstrad twin tape deck, even going to the trouble of colouring in the stripes on the white insert! Don’t worry, I subsequently bought it legitimately on cassette, CD and limited edition 3x 12”.

The album blew my mind and opened it to the possibilities of all that music could be. It felt like my generation’s Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band.

It occurred to me how bold they were opening the previous album, Actually, with a 12” mix of One More Chance and how this was a portent of things to come with Introspective.

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Re: The 10-track "US-version" of Introspective that could've been

#29 Post by ahafan02 »

My US version would have been:

1. Left To My Own Devices (Single Version)
2. I Want A Dog (Arthur Baker Edit)
3. I Get Excited (B-Side Edit)
4. Domino Dancing
5. Always On My Mind*
6. I'm No Scared (Full Length Version)
7. It's Alright (10" Version)
8. Don Juan (B-Side Version)
9. One of the Crowd
10. Your Funny Uncle

*I would just use the single mix of Always On My Mind, since it wasn't on a regular PSB album, would have enticed more people to buy it.

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retrofuturist
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Re: The 10-track "US-version" of Introspective that could've been

#30 Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

I agree with those who say that it shouldn't have been touched. Imagine how peeved you would be as a US fan to find out you got a scrappy collection of edits and b-sides, and that the UK got the superior and intended version of the album with the full length tracks? It would really make you feel like a second-class citizen compared to the European fans - a real insult to intelligence and taste. When we talk about this revisionism it's a common mistake to look at it exclusively from the perspective of appeasing the fairweather fans who dropped off, without also considering the perspective of the fans who stuck with the boys, moving forward.

If you accept Geowayne's analysis, it was all but over for PSB commercially by the US by the time Domino Dancing came out, and I don't see anything here in this revisionism that would have made a lick of difference - especially when you consider they would follow up this album with the commercially questionable (but artistically brilliant) Behaviour, and Very's boppy synth-pop in late 1993 at a time when the US market had not taken to eurodance at all.

Maybe the 7" of Always On My Mind could have appeared on the A-side of the record as a bonus track of sorts (as from memory, side A is quite a bit shorter than side B) but even that's pretty cynical, especially after having done so already with the Actually / Always On My Mind double-pack. It reeks of desperation, and runs counter to the image of aloof, nonchalant cool that they had cultivated to date.

Retro. :)

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