Drico One wrote:I think the idea of Jarvis driving the tanks on to Neil's front lawn only works if you think of both as merely foppish, fey, witty pop intellectuals - end even then is only plausible for that brief moment when Pulp went full pop with Common People and Disco 2000. In truth, they operated in different worlds. More interesting is the insight this incipient paranoia gives on Neil's state of mind around the time of Bilingual. Pulp never really translated past the cliffs of Dover. They have never even vaguely approached the international recognition that Neil and Chris generated - and generate to this day - yet Neil clearly felt underappreciated and a little ignored.
Weirdly, if he did, his response to Pulp's moment in the sun was...Bilingual. I mean, if you were thinking of competing with Pulp, would you come back with Before and Se A Vida E? Jarvis, who was a great pop star, by the way, was always more of a cad: using his bookishness as cover for a Sid James-style strategy with the local lovelies. That was, effectively, the joke. Neil, meanwhile, despite the raised eyebrows and ironic flourishes, was a more poignant wit, struggling with a sincerity and melancholia that was only partly masked by playful knowingness and camp observation.
Drico.
I think Bilingual does make sense in this context and has already been framed by Neil as a reaction against Britpop. If you feel you are struggling to compete then changing the game makes sense, and obviously looking overseas immediately gives a different and less insular perspective. Interestingly Pulp went on the pretty much the same journey but ended up at This Is Hardcore - with Jarvis retreating further inward still.
I can see the same parallel with Hotspot as a reaction to Brexit.
PopKid78 wrote: ↑Mon 29 Mar 2021, 10:46 am
Same here, I can’t for the life of me think where the comment came from. It was definitely from sometime last year.
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I think he mentioned it in a BBC HardTalk interview, if I recall correctly.
Drico.
Yes that would make sense. It was definitely a broadcast interview for the Dreamworld tour.
G_Goalden wrote:The timeline is lost in the midst of time - but would the proposed KLF collaboration have been superseded by the Electronic collab?
Perhaps 'Getting Away With It' could have been a stadium house track. It is certainly in the vain of 'Kylie Said To Jason'.
G.
I think all of this just goes to underline what an amazing period for pop music this was. I appreciate I would say that as I was 14 years old in 1989 but good god these are all such fantastic songs.
Drico One wrote: ↑Mon 29 Mar 2021, 11:54 am
I think the idea of Jarvis driving the tanks on to Neil's front lawn only works if you think of both as merely foppish, fey, witty pop intellectuals - end even then is only plausible for that brief moment when Pulp went full pop with Common People and Disco 2000. In truth, they operated in different worlds. More interesting is the insight this incipient paranoia gives on Neil's state of mind around the time of Bilingual. Pulp never really translated past the cliffs of Dover. They have never even vaguely approached the international recognition that Neil and Chris generated - and generate to this day - yet Neil clearly felt underappreciated and a little ignored.
Weirdly, if he did, his response to Pulp's moment in the sun was...Bilingual. I mean, if you were thinking of competing with Pulp, would you come back with Before and Se A Vida E? Jarvis, who was a great pop star, by the way, was always more of a cad: using his bookishness as cover for a Sid James-style strategy with the local lovelies. That was, effectively, the joke. Neil, meanwhile, despite the raised eyebrows and ironic flourishes, was a more poignant wit, struggling with a sincerity and melancholia that was only partly masked by playful knowingness and camp observation.
Drico.
There was a point when Pulp were in their Imperial phase - 'Intro' to 'Different Class' - when they were best live band around. Jarvis was probably the antithesis of Neil - even though they we commentating on the same subjects. I imagine that in 1996 - lots of people were jealous of Jarvis as he seemed to have it all - confident, witty, great pop songs, great band and a sense that he wasn't taking it all too seriously (unlike Radiohead, Blur, Oasis and the other Britpop bands). It's interesting that you cite Bilingual - which shares a number of similar themes as 'This is Hardcore' - both seeming to reject their band's recent pure-pop energy in favour of more grown up pop. Pulp never recovered from it - whilst we'd already had 'Behaviour' and so were more prepared/tolerant of a different sound.
Interesting debate though for a Monday and helps with my choice for this afternoon's listening.
PopKid78 wrote: ↑Mon 29 Mar 2021, 10:46 am
Same here, I can’t for the life of me think where the comment came from. It was definitely from sometime last year.
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I think he mentioned it in a BBC HardTalk interview, if I recall correctly.
Drico.
Yes that would make sense. It was definitely a broadcast interview for the Dreamworld tour.
PopKid78 wrote:Stephen Hague was considered as the producer for Different Class, because they liked his work with PSB. I think they even met up with him.
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I remember Jarvis playing Rent when they DJed at one of the after show events they used to host, back in the mid-90s.
“At that period [the height of Britpop] I’m paranoid about Jarvis. Common People is sort of an amazing Pet Shop Boys record. And so’s Disco 2000, the next one. And so I feel a bit paranoid because there’s always been “new Pet Shop Boys” but there’s never been, I mean as I used to say to people “you know they’ve made records for longer than we have” - because they have, they started in 1981 - and they make a really amazing Pet Shop Boys record, in a way - I know they won’t think of it like that, but I think I feel a bit paranoid. And Damon of course is doing Charmless Man and all those kind of things.”
Drico One wrote: ↑Mon 29 Mar 2021, 11:54 amNeil, meanwhile, despite the raised eyebrows and ironic flourishes, was a more poignant wit, struggling with a sincerity and melancholia that was only partly masked by playful knowingness and camp observation.
Dog wrote: ↑Mon 29 Mar 2021, 12:01 pmI think Bilingual does make sense in this context and has already been framed by Neil as a reaction against Britpop. If you feel you are struggling to compete then changing the game makes sense, and obviously looking overseas immediately gives a different and less insular perspective. Interestingly Pulp went on the pretty much the same journey but ended up at This Is Hardcore - with Jarvis retreating further inward still.
I don't think Bilingual was quite the reaction to Britpop that Neil may have suggested. Clearly they had been influenced by the Discovery tour and wrote some songs in that vein, which he could then conceptualise as being a response to the cultural zeitgeist. What I still find strange about Bilingual is the lack of promotion.
Dog wrote: ↑Mon 29 Mar 2021, 3:00 pm“At that period [the height of Britpop] I’m paranoid about Jarvis. Common People is sort of an amazing Pet Shop Boys record. And so’s Disco 2000, the next one. And so I feel a bit paranoid because there’s always been “new Pet Shop Boys” but there’s never been, I mean as I used to say to people “you know they’ve made records for longer than we have” - because they have, they started in 1981 - and they make a really amazing Pet Shop Boys record, in a way - I know they won’t think of it like that, but I think I feel a bit paranoid. And Damon of course is doing Charmless Man and all those kind of things.”
It's funny he claims ownership of those types of songs, Blur particularly who were basically apeing The Kinks. It must have been a strange time for him as synthpop's era of chart domination was more than a decade ago.
Dog wrote: ↑Mon 29 Mar 2021, 3:00 pm“At that period [the height of Britpop] I’m paranoid about Jarvis. Common People is sort of an amazing Pet Shop Boys record. And so’s Disco 2000, the next one. And so I feel a bit paranoid because there’s always been “new Pet Shop Boys” but there’s never been, I mean as I used to say to people “you know they’ve made records for longer than we have” - because they have, they started in 1981 - and they make a really amazing Pet Shop Boys record, in a way - I know they won’t think of it like that, but I think I feel a bit paranoid. And Damon of course is doing Charmless Man and all those kind of things.”
It's funny he claims ownership of those types of songs, Blur particularly who were basically apeing The Kinks. It must have been a strange time for him as synthpop's era of chart domination was more than a decade ago.
Yes, for me there’s always been far more to Pet Shop Boys than character studies.
Dog wrote: ↑Mon 29 Mar 2021, 12:01 pmI think Bilingual does make sense in this context and has already been framed by Neil as a reaction against Britpop. If you feel you are struggling to compete then changing the game makes sense, and obviously looking overseas immediately gives a different and less insular perspective. Interestingly Pulp went on the pretty much the same journey but ended up at This Is Hardcore - with Jarvis retreating further inward still.
I don't think Bilingual was quite the reaction to Britpop that Neil may have suggested. Clearly they had been influenced by the Discovery tour and wrote some songs in that vein, which he could then conceptualise as being a response to the cultural zeitgeist. What I still find strange about Bilingual is the lack of promotion.
My impression was that Chris wasn't up for promoting it at the time. To be fair, it did have Saturday Night Forever on it.
Drico.
The pale kid that hides in the attic behind his PC...
Dog wrote: ↑Mon 29 Mar 2021, 12:01 pm
I think Bilingual does make sense in this context and has already been framed by Neil as a reaction against Britpop. If you feel you are struggling to compete then changing the game makes sense, and obviously looking overseas immediately gives a different and less insular perspective. Interestingly Pulp went on the pretty much the same journey but ended up at This Is Hardcore - with Jarvis retreating further inward still.
I can see the same parallel with Hotspot as a reaction to Brexit.
I don't think Bilingual is a credible reaction to Britpop, though, even if Neil intended it as one. It's far too half-arsed to be the "Latin" album that it was sometimes presented as. The first single, Before, is fairly nondescript, and the second is uninspired, even if it at least does present the much-trumpteted Latin vibe. Let's face it, when the record's "South American percussion" was provided by a gang of Scottish lesbians, we weren't really setting sail too far from Dover. That said, there are some good songs on that album, but the best cut, A Red Letter Day, is hamstrung in a commercial sense by reprising the male voice choir trick that made Go West so instantly huge. For whatever reason, I think they'd lost a little spark at this time, a sense of their own commercial touch. They seemed...tired.
Drico.
The pale kid that hides in the attic behind his PC...
