Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

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Greendrake
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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#76 Post by Greendrake »

NotInvisible wrote: Fri 22 Jan 2021, 8:45 pm Standard definition looks better on Blu-ray than DVD due to better compression.
Better or not will depend on the codec settings, won't it? For DVD, MPEG-2 can be tweaked to produce 480p picture not worse (and that will fit the whole show on a double layer DVD disc) than bluray's H.264 would. Or are you saying that MPEG-2 settings for DVD format are set in stone and can't be tweaked?

Den
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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#77 Post by Den »

Rolling Stones have released a few blu rays recently of concerts from the 90’s shot on tape. Just saying.

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londonnoise
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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#78 Post by londonnoise »

The part where they insert "The rhythm of the night" into "Left to my own devices" still makes me tingle. I was lucky enough to attend the first night of the "Somewhere" concerts, but this always felt like something on another level entirely; just a giant party. Neil and Chris, take my darned money :D

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canveyboy
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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#79 Post by canveyboy »

Old Soak wrote: Fri 22 Jan 2021, 6:41 pm
Harry wrote: Fri 22 Jan 2021, 11:27 am
greenmile wrote: Fri 22 Jan 2021, 1:59 am I bought a rip of the laserdisk onto dvd off Ebay a few years ago. Really well packaged and everything. Guess I'll be able to retire that now.

And hopefully the 1989 tour will come out at some point now too. Wasn't that filmed on 16mm film which means in theory it could be converted to HD if they really wanted to go to the expense of getting it scanned?
It’s Performance that was filmed on 16mm, so while the DVD is nice, a HD restoration on Blu-ray could be fabulous!

MCMLXXXIX was filmed on digital videotape, which is why they never released it, they thought it looked too clear and made the concert look cheap, but it was the new favourite standard at the time. Hence going 16mm with Eric Watson for the next one.
Whilst I've only seen a second/third generation bootleg VHS of the full MCMLXXXIX concert and bits and pieces on YouTube at times even allowing for that the editing is pretty perfunctory and basic; and static camera shots makes the concert look dull when it was anything but. If they've still got the source tapes from multiple camera angles it could potentially be made to look more exciting with new, digital editing and a bit of pan and scan here and there, and I'm sure there are digital effects that can adjust and make videotape look more like film grain around now. But the willingness and money to do a Peter Jackson treatment like that coming up in 2021 for The Beatles' Let It Be probably isn't there.
To be honest I think they’ve already upscaled/cleaned up MCMLXXXIX concert anyway - take a look at the A Life In Pop DVD - there are several excerpts from MCMLXXXIX in that documentary that weren’t released on HIGHLIGHTS and they look amazing. Upscaled to 16:9 and look quite filmic/grainy. I’m sure they didn’t just improve the 5 songs they showed, they must have given the full show a treatment!

They showed One More Chance, Paninaro, It’s A Sin, Heart and Nothing Has Been Proved, all of which looked brilliant on my old 46” TV....seeing Chris for those few seconds in his bright pink cap and fluorescent green jacket in brilliant full widescreen and clear stereo sound awesome. Every time I see these clips I sigh to myself and wish they would release it, it looks great IMO.
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Synthrobot
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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#80 Post by Synthrobot »

Not sure I want to be rebuying all of these concerts on DVD, that said this was great, and never performed in the UK. The mash ups were superb. My VHS is still mint and only watched a couple of times.

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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#81 Post by boyjohn »

While I would love to see a restored MCMLXXXIX, they definitely should not crop it to 16:9. It wasn't filmed in that aspect ratio and doing that would lose like 30% of the picture.
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canveyboy
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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#82 Post by canveyboy »

boyjohn wrote: Sat 23 Jan 2021, 1:12 pm While I would love to see a restored MCMLXXXIX, they definitely should not crop it to 16:9. It wasn't filmed in that aspect ratio and doing that would lose like 30% of the picture.
Yeah I think you’re right actually. whilst the clips in the ALIP DVD did look great, I would prefer not to lose any of the image so I would rather if they did release it that they released it in it’s original aspect ratio - just as they are doing with Discovery.
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NotInvisible
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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#83 Post by NotInvisible »

Greendrake wrote: Fri 22 Jan 2021, 11:44 pm
NotInvisible wrote: Fri 22 Jan 2021, 8:45 pm Standard definition looks better on Blu-ray than DVD due to better compression.
Better or not will depend on the codec settings, won't it? For DVD, MPEG-2 can be tweaked to produce 480p picture not worse (and that will fit the whole show on a double layer DVD disc) than bluray's H.264 would. Or are you saying that MPEG-2 settings for DVD format are set in stone and can't be tweaked?
SD PAL is higher than 480p resolution.

Blu-ray is superior to DVD for SD material for five reasons:

1) the ability to use different codecs for improved compression
2) the ability to use higher bitrates
3) the ability to carry better sound mixes
4) the ability for NTSC viewers to enjoy PAL resolution
5) the ability to upscale content

Most SD material I've seen on Blu-ray looks and sounds better than its DVD equivalent (although obviously not HD quality). A great example is the vintage Doctor Who releases, which are night and day between the two formats.

Wouldn't it be great if this Discovery release was finally accompanied by Chris Heath's book of the tour, which Neil and Chris blocked due to content?

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coufy
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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#84 Post by coufy »

As there were used footage (originally used during first 1989 tour and released as Projections VHS) by Jarman as back projections in many songs, maybe we get them as DVD bonuses...
Last edited by coufy on Sat 23 Jan 2021, 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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y3potential
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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#85 Post by y3potential »

I doubt we'll get it, but it would be great to see a lot more of the home movie footage that was shown at the beginning of the video version as a bonus.
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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#86 Post by Greendrake »

NotInvisible wrote: Sat 23 Jan 2021, 2:04 pm Blu-ray is superior to DVD for SD material for five reasons:

1) the ability to use different codecs for improved compression
Yes MPEG-2 will take more space to carry the same quality, but if it fits on the disc, why care?
NotInvisible wrote: Sat 23 Jan 2021, 2:04 pm 2) the ability to use higher bitrates
How would a higher video bitrate benefit quality which just matches the original tape already?
NotInvisible wrote: Sat 23 Jan 2021, 2:04 pm 3) the ability to carry better sound mixes
What exactly can't DVD carry in terms of sound as compared to Blu-ray? Lossless/PCM for example goes just fine on DVD (check Cubism).
NotInvisible wrote: Sat 23 Jan 2021, 2:04 pm 4) the ability for NTSC viewers to enjoy PAL resolution
Who on Earth are "NTSC viewers" in 2021? Can't modern devices play whatever you plug in them just in whatever fps and resolution it comes?
NotInvisible wrote: Sat 23 Jan 2021, 2:04 pm 5) the ability to upscale content
I thought we're settled on this. No upscaling, just deliver the original image please.
NotInvisible wrote: Sat 23 Jan 2021, 2:04 pm Most SD material I've seen on Blu-ray looks and sounds better than its DVD equivalent (although obviously not HD quality). A great example is the vintage Doctor Who releases, which are night and day between the two formats.
Must have been poor DVD authoring, not drawback of the format itself.

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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#87 Post by NotInvisible »

Greendrake wrote: Sat 23 Jan 2021, 2:57 pmMust have been poor DVD authoring, not drawback of the format itself.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#88 Post by Greendrake »

NotInvisible wrote: Sat 23 Jan 2021, 3:17 pm
Greendrake wrote: Sat 23 Jan 2021, 2:57 pmMust have been poor DVD authoring, not drawback of the format itself.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
That statement isn't helpful to understand your point, if any.

The SD material that looked worse to you on DVD than on Blu-ray must have been put on the DVD not with the best codec config than it was possible. Hope this paraphrasing makes it clearer.

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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#89 Post by West 4th »

Greendrake wrote: Thu 21 Jan 2021, 11:01 pm
West 4th wrote: Thu 21 Jan 2021, 4:59 pm Anyone know if they'll have a US region DVD of this or is this only Europe?
Should be "one size fits all" region I reckon.

As for PAL or NTSC, does it really matter in 2021? Don't modern devices play everything?

I'd prefer it to stay in exactly the same format (aspect ratio and frame rate) that it was videoed — without any transformations.
No, modern DVD players don't play all region DVDs.
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NotInvisible
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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#90 Post by NotInvisible »

Greendrake wrote: Sat 23 Jan 2021, 3:53 pmThe SD material that looked worse to you on DVD than on Blu-ray must have been put on the DVD not with the best codec config than it was possible.
Repeating an erroneous claim doesn't make it any more true. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

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