Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

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Greendrake
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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#106 Post by Greendrake »

misterme wrote: Sun 24 Jan 2021, 1:08 pm When you release a film, if you don't want to leave this to a random fate, you have to oversee that upscaling process.
But on the other hand you mess up with the original image. You can apply however much care not to screw it up, but in any event it will no longer be exactly what was recorded.

I would rather use the right device to upscale nicely on play and have the original video rather than have it pre-adjusted to modern big screens.

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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#107 Post by NotInvisible »

Greendrake wrote: Sun 24 Jan 2021, 12:34 amThe maximum SD resolution is 720×576.
When I say you don't know what you're talking about, this is an example. There isn't a singular standard for SD media, it varies regionally. North America uses NTSC (720x480) whereas the UK uses PAL (720x576). North American users benefit from PAL SD being released on Blu-ray because there is a resolution jump even disregarding all other factors such as compression, bitrate etc. A US DVD is inherently lower resolution than a UK DVD.
misterme wrote: Sun 24 Jan 2021, 12:33 pm It's not just about the resolution.
DVD has visible compression artefacts even with the higher bitrates. I still play some DVDs on my 110" screen with my HD projector and can't help noticing them.
On Blu-ray, the resolution will remain unchanged, that's for sure. But the artefacts should disappear.
As I pointed out in my list of the five advantages of releasing SD material on Blu-ray. The improvement can be impressive.
Greendrake wrote: Sun 24 Jan 2021, 1:19 pmI would rather use the right device to upscale nicely on play and have the original video rather than have it pre-adjusted to modern big screens.
The right device isn't available to you - it's available to the people overseeing the upscale. The inbuilt systems in your Blu-ray player or television are worthless junk compared to that. You might as well be comparing a top-of-the-line theatrical speaker system to a desktop JBL.

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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#108 Post by misterme »

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Last edited by misterme on Mon 25 Jan 2021, 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Greendrake
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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#109 Post by Greendrake »

NotInvisible wrote: Sun 24 Jan 2021, 1:58 pm A US DVD is inherently lower resolution than a UK DVD.
Sure it is. Who says we need Discovery released on a crappy 720x480 DVD? People in the US should be able to purchase and play 720×576 DVDs wherever they come from, and just junk any devices that can't play them (it's a shame those still exist in 2021).
NotInvisible wrote: Sun 24 Jan 2021, 1:58 pm The right device isn't available to you - it's available to the people overseeing the upscale. The inbuilt systems in your Blu-ray player or television are worthless junk compared to that.
Oh really? Even if that is true, those things improve very fast. But if we don't get Discovery released in its native resolution now we will even less likely get it later.
misterme wrote: Sun 24 Jan 2021, 2:04 pm If you do not want to mess up with the original image and if you want to play exactly what was recorded, you will have to purchase copies of the tapes on which it was recorded, then play it on a SD monitor...
The tapes accurately converted to video files in their native resolution would be sufficiently "exactly what was recorded" as far as I am concerned. Video player windows on computer screens can always be sized to that resolution — no need to stretch them full screen if on-play upscaling sucks.

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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#110 Post by NotInvisible »

Greendrake wrote: Sun 24 Jan 2021, 2:24 pmWho says we need Discovery released on a crappy 720x480 DVD? People in the US should be able to purchase and play 720×576 DVDs wherever they come from, and just junk any devices that can't play them (it's a shame those still exist in 2021).
Most NTSC DVD players can't play PAL DVDs, and those that can still present issues for many viewers, because televisions were also manufactured specifically for those broadcast formats.

NTSC 720x480 30fps 60i
PAL 720x576 25fps 50i

It requires a standards conversion to view PAL SD on NTSC SD systems.

Things changed somewhat with HD. Now there was a single resolution worldwide, but technically the 60i/50i barrier remains. Most modern televisions can address this on the fly. But there's a massive installed base of legacy hardware out there, and Amazon is flooded with reviews by North American consumers buying European DVDs and simply not being able to play them.

The sensible solution is to release that material on Blu-ray, which then opens the door to several other benefits that have already been described to you.
NotInvisible wrote: Sun 24 Jan 2021, 1:58 pmThe right device isn't available to you - it's available to the people overseeing the upscale. The inbuilt systems in your Blu-ray player or television are worthless junk compared to that.
Oh really? Even if that is true, those things improve very fast.[/quote]

This is a great example of why discussing this with you is so frustrating. You didn't know about the advantages of Blu-ray vs DVD yet made declarative statements anyway. You continue to demonstrate that you don't actually know what you're talking about (e.g. "people in the US should be able to purchase and play 720×576 DVDs" while oblivious to the 50i/60i issue). And now you are seemingly unaware that professional upscaling is vastly better than the junk in your cheaply made home entertainment hardware yet nevertheless claim that "those things improve very fast," even though you were utterly unaware of the difference in the first place until this post. WTF dude. It's okay to say, "I don't know about this stuff, I just want Discovery to look as good as it can." It's okay to say, "I didn't know that. I just hope we get the best product possible."
But if we don't get Discovery released in its native resolution now we will even less likely get it later.
No one is arguing that Discovery should be released in less than its native resolution (except for those who want a North American DVD release).
The tapes accurately converted to video files in their native resolution would be sufficiently "exactly what was recorded" as far as I am concerned.
Well ideally you'd also want digital restoration with the best codec and bitrate possible. The latter two things mean we're looking at Blu-ray instead of DVD.

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boyjohn
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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#111 Post by boyjohn »

I'm just surprised that this is coming out. The whole dvd vs blu-ray argument regarding something that was shot on SD video seems a bit over the top though.
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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#112 Post by NotInvisible »

boyjohn wrote: Sun 24 Jan 2021, 3:16 pm I'm just surprised that this is coming out. The whole dvd vs blu-ray argument regarding something that was shot on SD video seems a bit over the top though.
You'd be surprised what properly restored, properly upscaled SD video looks like with better compression and higher bit rates. It'll never be confused with HD, but played side-by-side it's a noticeable improvement on DVD. To be honest though I'm surprised they're releasing it on physical media at all!

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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#113 Post by boyjohn »

NotInvisible wrote: Sun 24 Jan 2021, 3:18 pm
boyjohn wrote: Sun 24 Jan 2021, 3:16 pm I'm just surprised that this is coming out. The whole dvd vs blu-ray argument regarding something that was shot on SD video seems a bit over the top though.
You'd be surprised what properly restored, properly upscaled SD video looks like with better compression and higher bit rates. It'll never be confused with HD, but played side-by-side it's a noticeable improvement on DVD. To be honest though I'm surprised they're releasing it on physical media at all!

They may not want to spent the money on the upscaling, or making it a 4-pack instead of a 3-pack. I sit far away enough from my moderately sized TV and my vision isn't what it used to be anyway, so I doubt I would notice the difference. Now if this had been shot on film and they refused to do an HD version, then I would be upset.
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NotInvisible
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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#114 Post by NotInvisible »

boyjohn wrote: Sun 24 Jan 2021, 3:29 pmThey may not want to spent the money on the upscaling, or making it a 4-pack instead of a 3-pack... Now if this had been shot on film and they refused to do an HD version, then I would be upset.
I agree with all this! :)

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y3potential
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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#115 Post by y3potential »

Can they not make this concert plus Performance, Savoy ect available as a payable download on the official site..? Or is that not a 'very' Pet Shop Boys thing to do..
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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#116 Post by negative_0ne »

i'm wondering if the PAL version will have the audio at the correct speed.

because the NTSC one might be different.

later
-1

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Suburban_Boy
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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#117 Post by Suburban_Boy »

y3potential wrote: Sun 24 Jan 2021, 4:30 pm Can they not make this concert plus Performance, Savoy ect available as a payable download on the official site..? Or is that not a 'very' Pet Shop Boys thing to do..
I’d like this also, I no longer own any devices that can take physical media. Obvious piracy issue of course, but this will happen anyway. I’m more interested in the CD anyway and I guess this will appear on the streaming platforms like Inner Sanctum/ROH did.

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y3potential
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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#118 Post by y3potential »

Suburban_Boy wrote: Sun 24 Jan 2021, 5:36 pm
y3potential wrote: Sun 24 Jan 2021, 4:30 pm Can they not make this concert plus Performance, Savoy ect available as a payable download on the official site..? Or is that not a 'very' Pet Shop Boys thing to do..
I’d like this also, I no longer own any devices that can take physical media. Obvious piracy issue of course, but this will happen anyway. I’m more interested in the CD anyway and I guess this will appear on the streaming platforms like Inner Sanctum/ROH did.

It would also eliminate the costs involved in producing DVD's, although I appreciate that many of us prefer and enjoy the physical product. Perhaps it's a 'rights' issue, although I would assume that Neil & Chris own the rights to their concert films or maybe it's EMI..
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tonipsb
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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#119 Post by tonipsb »

I'm really looking forward to this release! What a nice surprise as we've not heard much from PSB in a while.

I've only watched a poor quality version of this on Youtube must have been a few years ago. Looking forward to seeing the whole thing properly. I also like having access to the audio of their concerts from my phone, so I'm glad they're releasing CDs.

Speaking of, I wish they'd release CDs of Cubism, Montage and the Electric tour. Doubt we'll ever see an official release of the Electric tour even on DVD/Bluray though.

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Re: Discovery 1994 - DVD/CD-Release

#120 Post by Pod »

I couldn’t give a frog’s fat ass what format it is or is not released on, the fact it is being released is good enough for me.
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