Reissues project

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NikacP0kac
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Re: Reissues project

#2416 Post by NikacP0kac » Tue 04 Sep 2018, 6:28 pm

Parkol wrote:
Tue 04 Sep 2018, 2:01 pm
I am listening to Very 2018 on the vinyl. I hoped they will improve Young Offender, but they didn't do it. I think it must sound wider. I hear Bass very well, but Young Offender sounds too messy for me. I am listening to it using very good monitors.
Erm...I don't think that's a remasterers job to do - more like a complete re-mix of the tracks original stems.
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That’s the thing about negative energy, about hatred. It can be positive. It throws into relief all the things you know you like. It tells you, by elimination, what you’re about. Sometimes you can only define yourself by what you hate. Hatred becomes an inspiration; it makes you think, “What I’m doing now I totally believe in, and I don’t care what other people say.” Guided by hatred, you don’t have to follow the herd. - Neil Tennant

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Parkol
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Re: Reissues project

#2417 Post by Parkol » Tue 04 Sep 2018, 6:48 pm

NikacP0kac wrote:
Tue 04 Sep 2018, 6:28 pm
Parkol wrote:
Tue 04 Sep 2018, 2:01 pm
I am listening to Very 2018 on the vinyl. I hoped they will improve Young Offender, but they didn't do it. I think it must sound wider. I hear Bass very well, but Young Offender sounds too messy for me. I am listening to it using very good monitors.
Erm...I don't think that's a remasterers job to do - more like a complete re-mix of the tracks original stems.
It's their job.

Mix engineer listen to the track and he understands what the track loses. It seems that every instrument is so important and it deserves the same volume level and attention as others. When you listen to Samurai in Autumn - you hear all nuances. When you listen to Very - it seems they had so many incredible ideas, but they had no idea how to mix it together.

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NikacP0kac
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Re: Reissues project

#2418 Post by NikacP0kac » Tue 04 Sep 2018, 9:25 pm

Parkol wrote:
Tue 04 Sep 2018, 6:48 pm
NikacP0kac wrote:
Tue 04 Sep 2018, 6:28 pm
Parkol wrote:
Tue 04 Sep 2018, 2:01 pm
I am listening to Very 2018 on the vinyl. I hoped they will improve Young Offender, but they didn't do it. I think it must sound wider. I hear Bass very well, but Young Offender sounds too messy for me. I am listening to it using very good monitors.
Erm...I don't think that's a remasterers job to do - more like a complete re-mix of the tracks original stems.
It's their job.

Mix engineer listen to the track and he understands what the track loses. It seems that every instrument is so important and it deserves the same volume level and attention as others. When you listen to Samurai in Autumn - you hear all nuances. When you listen to Very - it seems they had so many incredible ideas, but they had no idea how to mix it together.
AFAIK, mastering (and with that, re-mastering) involves having an already pre-defined mix and putting it through different filters etc.

What you want PSB to do with Very (I would like it as well, because it still sounds pretty cluttered) would be a totally new mix, like Erasure did for Sometimes in 2015 (stand-alone single to promote a singles compilation) or a full album re-mix like Tears For Fears did for Songs From The Big Chair in 2014, by giving Steven Wilson the original stems and having a new mix done for the album.

The process of remastering is more or less limited to the mix that is being mastered - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, that's just how I understand it.
Have a look at my taste in music:
http://www.last.fm/user/NikacPokac

That’s the thing about negative energy, about hatred. It can be positive. It throws into relief all the things you know you like. It tells you, by elimination, what you’re about. Sometimes you can only define yourself by what you hate. Hatred becomes an inspiration; it makes you think, “What I’m doing now I totally believe in, and I don’t care what other people say.” Guided by hatred, you don’t have to follow the herd. - Neil Tennant

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Parkol
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Re: Reissues project

#2419 Post by Parkol » Tue 04 Sep 2018, 10:32 pm

NikacP0kac wrote:
Tue 04 Sep 2018, 9:25 pm
Parkol wrote:
Tue 04 Sep 2018, 6:48 pm
NikacP0kac wrote:
Tue 04 Sep 2018, 6:28 pm


Erm...I don't think that's a remasterers job to do - more like a complete re-mix of the tracks original stems.
It's their job.

Mix engineer listen to the track and he understands what the track loses. It seems that every instrument is so important and it deserves the same volume level and attention as others. When you listen to Samurai in Autumn - you hear all nuances. When you listen to Very - it seems they had so many incredible ideas, but they had no idea how to mix it together.
AFAIK, mastering (and with that, re-mastering) involves having an already pre-defined mix and putting it through different filters etc.

What you want PSB to do with Very (I would like it as well, because it still sounds pretty cluttered) would be a totally new mix, like Erasure did for Sometimes in 2015 (stand-alone single to promote a singles compilation) or a full album re-mix like Tears For Fears did for Songs From The Big Chair in 2014, by giving Steven Wilson the original stems and having a new mix done for the album.

The process of remastering is more or less limited to the mix that is being mastered - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, that's just how I understand it.
They remaster Very second time, so they couldn't improve Very in 2001, they tried to do it in 2018.
I think Tim Young mastered Very in a DAW like Pro Tools and he have heard his previous 2001 work and 1993 sound, but he still makes the same mix. Can You Forgive her sounds good, but there is no fat synth sound there which had to be, I think. They could re-connect old synth and re-recorded MIDI files, then they would add effects like reverb, EQ, delays and etc. I think Tim Young had to re-recorded parts he could recorded and after that convert them to Audio with a vocal and master again. Drums must sound fatter, pads not so bright, because they don't let lead synths work well, bass... it sounds strange... I was listening to Very on Genelec 8030 B (professional studio monitors) and 2 different PRO headphones (Sony MDR 7506 and Audio Technica ath-m50x), but I wasn't so impressed. Listen to the Theater, the orchestra is amazing, but do you hear drums when more instruments started to play... No, they disappear.
Of course I am not a sound engineer. I don't work on Abbey Road or Metropolis, but we all have ears and we can compare how songs sounds.

Survivors on Bilingual. The drums should sound softer, the guitar would be brighter and it would be on the left. I listen to the last Jamiroquai album, it's electronic but you hear all instruments, all details and the is no overload. Metamorphosis sounded so cool even in 1996, so... why can't you make all songs like Metamorphosis? Relentless sounds better then Very, without any remastering.

If you need examples how strings would work with a guitar, bass, synth and it still sounds not so overloaded. F Wiliams ft Paft Punk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWSRtPTmRr4

Listen how strings sounds, so gently, yes, you hear them, but you hear all instruments at the same time. Claps, electro organ at the back. Even when strings play so high they don't disturb other instruments. I saw how the multitrack session looks in Pro Tools and there are probably 26-30 instruments, but they work well together.
Just think how The Theater would sound!

I would be wrong, but Very would sound brighter and better.

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Re: Reissues project

#2420 Post by TwizzleUK » Tue 04 Sep 2018, 11:31 pm

NikacP0kac wrote:
Tue 04 Sep 2018, 9:25 pm
Parkol wrote:
Tue 04 Sep 2018, 6:48 pm
NikacP0kac wrote:
Tue 04 Sep 2018, 6:28 pm


Erm...I don't think that's a remasterers job to do - more like a complete re-mix of the tracks original stems.
It's their job.

Mix engineer listen to the track and he understands what the track loses. It seems that every instrument is so important and it deserves the same volume level and attention as others. When you listen to Samurai in Autumn - you hear all nuances. When you listen to Very - it seems they had so many incredible ideas, but they had no idea how to mix it together.
AFAIK, mastering (and with that, re-mastering) involves having an already pre-defined mix and putting it through different filters etc.

What you want PSB to do with Very (I would like it as well, because it still sounds pretty cluttered) would be a totally new mix, like Erasure did for Sometimes in 2015 (stand-alone single to promote a singles compilation) or a full album re-mix like Tears For Fears did for Songs From The Big Chair in 2014, by giving Steven Wilson the original stems and having a new mix done for the album.

The process of remastering is more or less limited to the mix that is being mastered - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, that's just how I understand it.
Nikac is correct. None of the remasters have been remixed - hence why they're called remasters and not new mixes or remixes. If they'd gone back to the original mutitrack studio versions the songs would sound more noticeably different in their levels and re-release versions - plus going back to all the old multitrack tapes and files would have been a much longer and more expensive process. The differences people are hearing is purely in the way the final stereo master tapes have been dynamically compressed or equalised (EQ, or tone).

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rollo
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Re: Reissues project

#2421 Post by rollo » Tue 04 Sep 2018, 11:53 pm

They're at #28, 32, and 35 (in chronological order) on the midweek chart. The last batch were #25, 24, and 32, and entered the Friday chart at #65, 59, and 73.
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Niall
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Re: Reissues project

#2422 Post by Niall » Wed 05 Sep 2018, 3:31 pm

tottenhammattspurs wrote:
Sun 02 Sep 2018, 7:06 pm
Actually wrote:
Fri 31 Aug 2018, 11:23 pm
I bought Please to Bilingual reissues way back in 2001. I have only bought Nightlife to Elysium 2017/2018 reissues & Please Actually Introspective & Release Vinyl reissues & will buy Bilingual on Vinyl. Not keen on buying all reissues again, my Actually & Very 2001 reissues carry a lot of weight with Neil & Chris signing on both. Reading these comments about a superior sound quality on the latest batch has got me wondering....Are they much of an improvement to fork out again??
I still firmly believe there's no real improvement. It's just the fact that for the last 10 years we've listened to the albums on streaming and inferior MP3s so when we actually put on a cd and actually "listen", all we are hearing are all the subtle nuances that were always there but have subsequently been "lost" on our 256kps MP3s.....




I'm sure i'll be shouted down now but hey-ho!
Speak for yourself. I don’t listen to streaming services or mp3s. I only listen to lossless copies made from my CDs. So how do you explain any improvement I think I hear?
Evertonians are born not manufactured.
We do not choose; we are chosen.
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Tom Angel
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Re: Reissues project

#2423 Post by Tom Angel » Wed 05 Sep 2018, 5:51 pm

Well, I have to admit that the details on Very on the Vinyl reissue are marvellous. It sounds so much fuller and more solid somehow - mind you for some reason it's the land I've probably listened to the least, but side 1 has been an absolute joy - onto side 2 and then Bilingual
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Re: Reissues project

#2424 Post by Tom Angel » Wed 05 Sep 2018, 5:52 pm

I also bought Very, Nightlife, Bilingual and Fundamental on vinyl because I did not own them. And it was too pricey to buy on discogs, etc .
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Re: Reissues project

#2425 Post by tottenhammattspurs » Thu 06 Sep 2018, 8:27 am

Niall wrote:
Wed 05 Sep 2018, 3:31 pm
tottenhammattspurs wrote:
Sun 02 Sep 2018, 7:06 pm
Actually wrote:
Fri 31 Aug 2018, 11:23 pm
I bought Please to Bilingual reissues way back in 2001. I have only bought Nightlife to Elysium 2017/2018 reissues & Please Actually Introspective & Release Vinyl reissues & will buy Bilingual on Vinyl. Not keen on buying all reissues again, my Actually & Very 2001 reissues carry a lot of weight with Neil & Chris signing on both. Reading these comments about a superior sound quality on the latest batch has got me wondering....Are they much of an improvement to fork out again??
I still firmly believe there's no real improvement. It's just the fact that for the last 10 years we've listened to the albums on streaming and inferior MP3s so when we actually put on a cd and actually "listen", all we are hearing are all the subtle nuances that were always there but have subsequently been "lost" on our 256kps MP3s.....




I'm sure i'll be shouted down now but hey-ho!
Speak for yourself. I don’t listen to streaming services or mp3s. I only listen to lossless copies made from my CDs. So how do you explain any improvement I think I hear?
You probably have better ears.
is is and isnt isnt

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Marie loves PSB
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Re: Reissues project

#2426 Post by Marie loves PSB » Thu 06 Sep 2018, 9:26 am

I never received any e-mails to say they had been dispatched etc... So, for the first time this week (as I have been waiting in for them) I went out. A neighbour opposite us had taken the parcel in for me. I was very grateful for that. :up:

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Parkol
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Re: Reissues project

#2427 Post by Parkol » Thu 06 Sep 2018, 10:11 am

it seems to me that when PSB were on EMI they would never recorded Pazzo, for example.
Today I am going to buy Bilingual 12', I hope it will sound perfect.

Image

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Niall
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Re: Reissues project

#2428 Post by Niall » Thu 06 Sep 2018, 3:19 pm

tottenhammattspurs wrote:
Thu 06 Sep 2018, 8:27 am
Niall wrote:
Wed 05 Sep 2018, 3:31 pm
tottenhammattspurs wrote:
Sun 02 Sep 2018, 7:06 pm


I still firmly believe there's no real improvement. It's just the fact that for the last 10 years we've listened to the albums on streaming and inferior MP3s so when we actually put on a cd and actually "listen", all we are hearing are all the subtle nuances that were always there but have subsequently been "lost" on our 256kps MP3s.....




I'm sure i'll be shouted down now but hey-ho!
Speak for yourself. I don’t listen to streaming services or mp3s. I only listen to lossless copies made from my CDs. So how do you explain any improvement I think I hear?
You probably have better ears.
One, maybe.
Evertonians are born not manufactured.
We do not choose; we are chosen.
Those who understand need no explanation.
Those that don't understand don't matter.

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MD
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Re: Reissues project

#2429 Post by MD » Fri 07 Sep 2018, 3:18 am

Well, I have had these now for almost a week and have been listening to them constantly.

The first thing you need to know about these remasters is to play them LOUD. They are quieter than the 2001 Sets. This is especially so for Behaviour. If you play them loud on a good set of stereo speakers you are going to here lots of depth and detail. The 2001 mastering of Behaviour was noticeably lacking in the high end of the sound spectrum, It was overly muddy in sound. This is no longer the case as the sound engineer has restored the treble. Niel’s falsetto sounds great. The whole of behaviour is a great improvement on the 2001 edition. The extended version of So Hard is particularly pleasing to the years. The 2018 cd remaster is for me the definitive version of behavior. If you like vinyl you will also be pleased to note that it too shows much improvement over the 2001 edition.
"Not everyone is lucky enough to understand how delicious it is to suffer"

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tottenhammattspurs
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Re: Reissues project

#2430 Post by tottenhammattspurs » Sat 08 Sep 2018, 11:54 am

Charted way lower than the other reissues. Less copies sold or a particularly busy week?
is is and isnt isnt

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