What have we done to deserve this ?

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retrofuturist
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Re: What have we done to deserve this ?

#31 Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
TheGardner wrote:Arrgh, forget about EMI statements, and forget about my last post. There's already a first promo out of the closet. It's an 8track CD-R with the Dahlback and the Niki Edits as bonus, and it's matrix is damn official! Issue probably x50.
50. That'd be about right.

It's almost getting to the point where I'd be happy to log onto eBay and pay a Russian bootlegger to pull all the mixes together onto an imitation promo CD, just to save me from "downloading" them.

Retro. :)

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Re: What have we done to deserve this ?

#32 Post by Bjossi »

Jamesqdot wrote:In my opinion (please note this disclaimer here) this is as massively untrue a generalisation as all those "audiophiles" who spend the whole time claiming the opposite. I have spent years comparing the difference between the two and been in a number of (admittedly amateur) blind tests and have always been able to tell the difference between a 320K mp3 and a lossless version. Maybe I was just lucky... who knows?
Statistics can not be without generalizations, and they translate a lot more accurately to a large group of people than picking a person at random. Neither of our personal experiences mean anything to the larger picture. I certainly believe it if you could tell the difference in a blind test, it just means that you have very good ears and/or you are a trained listener and/or you just got lucky, but with a well prepared test that last property can be minimized for the most part. But the fact you can discern the difference at 320k and I can't at 192k it doesn't change the larger picture that is formed by thousands of listeners, both amateurs and experienced.

And for the record from the few articles and discussions among audiophiles I could stomach I did not see a lot of scientific method being used to support the effect of their snake oil. I would be ready to believe that some one out there has claimed that leaving the toilet seat up will make the stereo downstairs sound warmer and more crisp.
But, why would you even accept paying the same amount (or just ever-so-slightly less) for something that is quantifiably inferior, something obviously compressed, that requires no packaging or expensive distribution, attention to cover art or physical ownership whatsoever?
Economies and services can vary, but from the few stores I have looked at sell lossy content a lot cheaper than CDs, and that is without taking the shipping into the CD price if applicable. I personally wouldn't pay for mp3s except in very rare situations, I will always prefer lossless for a guaranteed complete experience and archival.
Furthermore, there is no portable device in existence that could hold my entire record collection in a lossless format, or for that matter, a significant or desirable portion in a lossless format. Okay, that's arguably me just being a spoiled brat, but again, it's all very well people saying we should move to this sparkly new "digital age", but until someone creates the affordable technology to store a like-for-like, totally lossless equivalent and then sell it at an equivalent (as in minus product design, packaging, distribution etc) price, they can all just f** right off into the "cloud" or whatever they mistakenly call it in their crack-addled stupors.
Why would you need your entire collection in a portable gizmo? If you will be away for longer periods of time you would probably take a laptop with you and possibly an external hard disk, which makes it possible to swap artists/albums around for the portable. If I go to the gym, work, etc. I don't need weeks worth of music, you can hardly listen to it all in 24 hours, let alone 8.

Oh, and I thought I was the only one who absolutely HATES the "cloud" buzz word. :) I grind my teeth whenever I see it or hear it used in the context of computing.

herts101
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What have we done to deserve this ?

#33 Post by herts101 »

Jamesqdot wrote:
Furthermore, there is no portable device in existence that could hold my entire record collection in a lossless format, or for that matter, a significant or desirable portion in a lossless format.
You could carry all PSB albums around lossless though. What else could you possibly need??!

stevebr20012
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Re: What have we done to deserve this ?

#34 Post by stevebr20012 »

Jamesqdot wrote:
Bjossi wrote:
Furthermore, there is no portable device in existence that could hold my entire record collection in a lossless format, or for that matter, a significant or desirable portion in a lossless format. Okay, that's arguably me just being a spoiled brat, but again, it's all very well people saying we should move to this sparkly new "digital age", but until someone creates the affordable technology to store a like-for-like, totally lossless equivalent and then sell it at an equivalent (as in minus product design, packaging, distribution etc) price, they can all just f** right off into the "cloud" or whatever they mistakenly call it in their crack-addled stupors.
I can't see how anyone can complain about the price of digital music. The first PSB cd I bought was Behaviour on release day and it was £12.99 (from EGS records in Wakefield for any others from round here, and that was a proper record shop where you could browse and find and all sorts of rare treats). A download album minus case, dsitribution and artwork (but you do get some usually) is both cheaper than cds used to be and cheaper than the cd version in most cases. Perhaps price is still the only thing that's better about downloads though.

Remembering back to the old days, did anyone ever wander into a record shop to find one copy of an import or remix 12", not having the money for it and hiding it in some unrelated artist to get later. I remember Iron Maiden used to be good for hiding PSB stuff for a later date. The other teenage antic of mine was buying reduced cds in one shop (Jason Donovan's Ten Good Reasons was £1.99 on cd for ages in EGS) and then taking it back to HMV with the duplicate present excuse and swapping for something of your choice. Did that loads to get new stuff really cheap. You can't do that with digital downloads!!

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StevePSB
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Re: What have we done to deserve this ?

#35 Post by StevePSB »

I (more or less) refuse to pay for downloads as I prefer a CD in my hand. The quality argument is non existent, you can go back and make MP3's from it again and again, you get proper artwork, and best of all, when your hard drive blows up or otherwise fails you're not left cursing yourself for not making a back up when you realise you've lost your money!

I hid a copy of Very Relentless in Woolworths in Bedworth because I couldn't afford it and they refused to reserve it for me (great policy that turned out to be! ;) ) and was devastated when I went back and it was no longer there and they'd sold out. Got it in the end though. :)


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Old Soak
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Re: What have we done to deserve this ?

#36 Post by Old Soak »

Here is where the fan club could really come into it's own with a remixes CD. Set up a pre-order by a set date. Charge (say) £10 due to small run. Press the required quantity. Even if it's a CD-R it's official, has some artwork (the digital remix yellow podium must have taken all of 30 seconds so not much work there), result - fans happy, boys happy with extra sales, fan club numbers go up. Plenty of artists do this sort of thing:

Eels - exclusive live albums
Paul Buchanan - exclusive 2CD boxed version of new album
U2, Coldplay, Blur - plenty of fan club special releases

Why not PSB? That's a real service to the diehard fans
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tottenhammattspurs
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Re: What have we done to deserve this ?

#37 Post by tottenhammattspurs »

Ive wondered since the xmas 1997 cd why the fan club doesnt release fanclub only stuff. It'd probably encourage more people to join up too.
is is and isnt isnt

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Jamesqdot
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Re: What have we done to deserve this ?

#38 Post by Jamesqdot »

Bjossi wrote:Statistics can not be without generalizations, and they translate a lot more accurately to a large group of people than picking a person at random. Neither of our personal experiences mean anything to the larger picture. I certainly believe it if you could tell the difference in a blind test, it just means that you have very good ears and/or you are a trained listener and/or you just got lucky, but with a well prepared test that last property can be minimized for the most part. But the fact you can discern the difference at 320k and I can't at 192k it doesn't change the larger picture that is formed by thousands of listeners, both amateurs and experienced.

And for the record from the few articles and discussions among audiophiles I could stomach I did not see a lot of scientific method being used to support the effect of their snake oil. I would be ready to believe that some one out there has claimed that leaving the toilet seat up will make the stereo downstairs sound warmer and more crisp.
True, true. And yes, the audiophile arguments do often come across as rather elitist don't they? This has been argued into the ground all around the world many times over. I guess it all comes down to what the individual perceives and is willing to pay.
Bjossi wrote:Economies and services can vary, but from the few stores I have looked at sell lossy content a lot cheaper than CDs, and that is without taking the shipping into the CD price if applicable. I personally wouldn't pay for mp3s except in very rare situations, I will always prefer lossless for a guaranteed complete experience and archival.
I don't pay for mp3s generally either, except when there is absolutely no other choice and I really want something. Boomkat is very good for pricing on lossless stuff actually. See, what I'd really like more companies to do is sell a vinyl + lossless digital package. I'd be willing to pay a bit more for that. This would then satisfy both my old-school needs and my convenience needs (i.e. storage on the NAS etc).
Bjossi wrote:Why would you need your entire collection in a portable gizmo? If you will be away for longer periods of time you would probably take a laptop with you and possibly an external hard disk, which makes it possible to swap artists/albums around for the portable. If I go to the gym, work, etc. I don't need weeks worth of music, you can hardly listen to it all in 24 hours, let alone 8.
Spoiled brat as I say. Plus I'm obsessed with music. :)
Bjossi wrote:Oh, and I thought I was the only one who absolutely HATES the "cloud" buzz word. :) I grind my teeth whenever I see it or hear it used in the context of computing.
[/quote]

No, you're definitely not alone there!

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Jamesqdot
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Re: What have we done to deserve this ?

#39 Post by Jamesqdot »

stevebr20012 wrote:Remembering back to the old days, did anyone ever wander into a record shop to find one copy of an import or remix 12", not having the money for it and hiding it in some unrelated artist to get later. I remember Iron Maiden used to be good for hiding PSB stuff for a later date.
YES! Two words: "Heart Remix".

I suddenly found a lone copy in the Portsmouth Our Price store in the Tricorn Centre. I was really excited because before that I never even knew it existed and I loved remixes. So I hid it away, then came back the next day and bought it. :)

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Radiophonic
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Re: What have we done to deserve this ?

#40 Post by Radiophonic »

Old Soak wrote:Here is where the fan club could really come into it's own with a remixes CD. Set up a pre-order by a set date. Charge (say) £10 due to small run. Press the required quantity. Even if it's a CD-R it's official, has some artwork (the digital remix yellow podium must have taken all of 30 seconds so not much work there), result - fans happy, boys happy with extra sales, fan club numbers go up. Plenty of artists do this sort of thing:

Eels - exclusive live albums
Paul Buchanan - exclusive 2CD boxed version of new album
U2, Coldplay, Blur - plenty of fan club special releases

Why not PSB? That's a real service to the diehard fans

What a good idea. Saint Etienne have been doing this for years.
"Enjoy it while it lasts ... "

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tottenhammattspurs
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Re: What have we done to deserve this ?

#41 Post by tottenhammattspurs »

Jamesqdot wrote:
stevebr20012 wrote:Remembering back to the old days, did anyone ever wander into a record shop to find one copy of an import or remix 12", not having the money for it and hiding it in some unrelated artist to get later. I remember Iron Maiden used to be good for hiding PSB stuff for a later date.
YES! Two words: "Heart Remix".

I suddenly found a lone copy in the Portsmouth Our Price store in the Tricorn Centre. I was really excited because before that I never even knew it existed and I loved remixes. So I hid it away, then came back the next day and bought it. :)
Having been in Portsmouth just the other day, it looked like someone has hidden the Tricorn Centre somewhere in Iron Maiden!
is is and isnt isnt

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Jamesqdot
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Re: What have we done to deserve this ?

#42 Post by Jamesqdot »

tottenhammattspurs wrote:Having been in Portsmouth just the other day, it looked like someone has hidden the Tricorn Centre somewhere in Iron Maiden!
Indeed, Thank goodness... another piece of brutalist concrete hideousness deleted. :)

Actually, the last time I was there it was just a flat car park. What's there now?

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Marie loves PSB
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Re: What have we done to deserve this ?

#43 Post by Marie loves PSB »

Actually wrote:"Call me old fashioned", but i'm not ready to switch to digital download bundles just to get hold of singles. Yes i know i can (& will) order the Cd single of Winner from the OS but am i the only old fashioned git who is already missing the fact that we can no longer by singles from Hmv.
I was in Stratford's Westfield shopping centre (Olympic Park) yesterday and called in the Hmv there with the silly notion of getting my hands on the Winner single. Shop assistant was very helpful in saying " Time to move with the digital age and we don't stock singles anymore because of room.......".
Come on Parlophone, not all of us are digital material, yet.
Or are we ?
Am i old fashioned ?
If so, is there anyone who would like to be old fashioned with me ?
Hi, I'm the same. I do not like the idea of buying my future PSB's / any other music as a download (It is not the same). I'd much prefer to buy a proper CD. Also, not everyone has got a P.C / Internet either.

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Radiophonic
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Re: What have we done to deserve this ?

#44 Post by Radiophonic »

All I want to do is go to HMV (there is one within walking distance) buy the single in a bag with a receipt take it home and play it.
"Enjoy it while it lasts ... "

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Waffleon
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Re: What have we done to deserve this ?

#45 Post by Waffleon »

Yeh, it's a few things. The search is too easy to be interesting being limited to iTunes or Amazon usually. The electronic payment action feels slightly removed from the transaction taking place especially if just a password. The delivery is relatively immediate, no bus ride home, nothing to read over and over in the meantime. No human interaction, no cute sales assistant. There's nothing to look after, nothing to not bend or crease, it always looks exactly the same. You can't open it or leave it closed forever. It's not a pain in the arse when you move house. What happens when you split up these days, you both get to keep it?

I vividly remember buying my first record. I suppose the equivalent action for my children in a few years will be realized with an iTunes gift card and a couple of minutes in their bedroom on their iPod. Bit sad.

On the flip-side, it's greener and should be cheaper. Also, it's great for an artist that it's so easy to buy their music on first hear.

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