The Boys need a better proofreader!

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No Muscle Mary
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Re: The Boys need a better proofreader!

#91 Post by No Muscle Mary » Thu 18 Feb 2016, 10:59 am

Neil corrects West End Girls to West End girls.

He got this one wrong. The title of a song is a proper noun, therefore gets capitals. How can you give The Pop Kids full capitals and not the girls in West End Girls? I worked as a sub-editor for years, and it's rarely Neil gets something wrong, but he's wrong on this one.
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Sandy Shaw
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Re: The Boys need a better proofreader!

#92 Post by Sandy Shaw » Thu 18 Feb 2016, 4:38 pm

No Muscle Mary wrote:Neil corrects West End Girls to West End girls.

He got this one wrong. The title of a song is a proper noun, therefore gets capitals. How can you give The Pop Kids full capitals and not the girls in West End Girls? I worked as a sub-editor for years, and it's rarely Neil gets something wrong, but he's wrong on this one.
Aren't Pet Shop Boys song titles considered to be capitalised like sentences?
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No Muscle Mary
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Re: The Boys need a better proofreader!

#93 Post by No Muscle Mary » Thu 18 Feb 2016, 5:13 pm

The capitalization of songs should be done similarly to capitalization of titles. To punctuate, the titles should be written with a double quote (“ “) around it. Any punctuation that is part of the title such as commas, exclamation points or question marks, should also go inside the quotation marks.

Capitalization Rules for Songs
Song titles work similarly to other titles when it comes to punctuation; although, song titles can have some special rules as well.

Rules

The first word and last word in the song’s title should be capitalized.
All other nouns and active verbs should be capitalized.
Conjunctions (and, but, or), short prepositions (in, out, by, for, from) and articles (a, an, the) are not capitalized unless they belong to the first rule of being the first or last word in the title. For prepositions, words that are four or less letters should not be capitalized. Words that are five or more letters should be capitalized, such as across, among or beyond.
Some other short words should always be capitalized, such as also, as followed by a verb such as be, if, than, that, thus and when.
Phrasal verbs also need to be capitalized. Phrasal verbs combine verbs and prepositions or adverbs into an idiomatic expression whose meaning differs from that of the actual definitions of the individual words used.
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rollo
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Re: The Boys need a better proofreader!

#94 Post by rollo » Fri 19 Feb 2016, 4:55 pm

... or you could just respect the artist's preference, and Neil has said that their song titles are normally written as sentences. I'm not sure what's going on with the latest material though.

Chris, on the other hand, is clearly not as OCD as the rest of us...
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Re: The Boys need a better proofreader!

#95 Post by Harry » Fri 19 Feb 2016, 6:00 pm

I think their latest song titles follow Neil's rules on capitalisation. 'The Pop Kids' evidently refers to a particular group of people and this is their title, so I can see his logic. He hasn't capitalised because of it being the title of the song.

It's similar to 'West End girls', 'Dreaming of the Queen', 'New York City boy' and 'King of Rome'. He writes them as sentences rather than titles, which you may or may not like. I like it because it gives Neil many opportunities for pedantry! It might be incorrect in the wider world but in the world of our Pets this is how it is.

I remember Neil being very adamant about 'Love etc.' having no comma after love as the 'et' in 'etcetera' is French for 'and'. Because it's an abbreviation it gets a full stop too!

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Sandy Shaw
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Re: The Boys need a better proofreader!

#96 Post by Sandy Shaw » Sat 20 Feb 2016, 1:44 am

Maybe Did you see me coming? should have been called "Did you e e cummings?"

Check out E E Cummings the poet if you don't get this reference!
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Re: The Boys need a better proofreader!

#97 Post by MikeyC » Sat 20 Feb 2016, 4:24 am

Sandy Shaw wrote:Maybe Did you see me coming? should have been called "Did you e e cummings?"

Check out E E Cummings the poet if you don't get this reference!
or... Did You Alan Cumming? 8)

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Re: The Boys need a better proofreader!

#98 Post by No Muscle Mary » Sat 20 Feb 2016, 10:25 am

I can tell you that if Neil worked for any publication and was doing that with song titles, he'd get an ear-bashing from the editor.

As it is, he's a Pet Shop Boy and can do whatever the hell he wants.

But if I was writing their song titles on one of my publications, I'd be applying the proper English rules.
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Sandy Shaw
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Re: The Boys need a better proofreader!

#99 Post by Sandy Shaw » Sat 20 Feb 2016, 10:55 am

No Muscle Mary wrote:I can tell you that if Neil worked for any publication and was doing that with song titles, he'd get an ear-bashing from the editor.

As it is, he's a Pet Shop Boy and can do whatever the hell he wants.

But if I was writing their song titles on one of my publications, I'd be applying the proper English rules.
You certainly know your grammar. It is a complicated field and I have to confess I am ignorant of many parts of it!
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Re: The Boys need a better proofreader!

#100 Post by No Muscle Mary » Sat 20 Feb 2016, 11:03 am

There's a lot to it Sandy. When you start work at any new publication, as well as knowing normal English grammar rules, they hand you a list of house rules too that you're expected to know by day two.

Added to that complication, when you come from Ireland, you have to have an in-depth knowledge of the Irish language too, Gaeilge, and all its many rules. Irish publications abroad have big problems finding editors and proof-readers for this very reason. So many of our names, place names etc are in Gaelige. It's something you either love or you should keep well away from as a job. It's clear that Neil has a passion for it too.
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Re: The Boys need a better proofreader!

#101 Post by Drico One » Sat 20 Feb 2016, 5:14 pm

No Muscle Mary wrote:Gaeilge, and all its many rules... So many of our names, place names etc are in Gaelige.
You need a better proofreader, Mary. :wink:

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No Muscle Mary
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Re: The Boys need a better proofreader!

#102 Post by No Muscle Mary » Sat 20 Feb 2016, 9:07 pm

Drico One wrote:
No Muscle Mary wrote:Gaeilge, and all its many rules... So many of our names, place names etc are in Gaelige.
You need a better proofreader, Mary. :wink:

Drico.
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Nice one Drico.
I type too fast. Lucky then that this is a discussion forum and not my workplace. :P
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Re: The Boys need a better proofreader!

#103 Post by Undertaker » Sat 20 Feb 2016, 9:33 pm

Whatever the right and wrongs, Neil should be brought to book on it anyway. West End girls looks stupid :evil:

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Re: The Boys need a better proofreader!

#104 Post by Drico One » Sat 20 Feb 2016, 10:04 pm

No Muscle Mary wrote:
Drico One wrote:
No Muscle Mary wrote:Gaeilge, and all its many rules... So many of our names, place names etc are in Gaelige.
You need a better proofreader, Mary. :wink:

Drico.
:lol:
Nice one Drico.
I type too fast. Lucky then that this is a discussion forum and not my workplace. :P
I'm only rising you, Mary. :wink:

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Patrick Bateman
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Re: The Boys need a better proofreader!

#105 Post by Patrick Bateman » Sat 20 Feb 2016, 10:11 pm

No Muscle Mary wrote:Neil corrects West End Girls to West End girls.

He got this one wrong. The title of a song is a proper noun, therefore gets capitals. How can you give The Pop Kids full capitals and not the girls in West End Girls? I worked as a sub-editor for years, and it's rarely Neil gets something wrong, but he's wrong on this one.
Surely West End girls are simply girls from the West End, just as Brazilian girls are girls from Brazil? If it was The West End Girls, or West End Girls the group, then it would be a proper noun. As it is, it's a common noun with an adjective preceding it.

Similarly, The Pop Kids is a proper noun because it refers to a specific couple of people, rather than pop kids in general.

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